oh messy life New Member Posts:27  
| 9/15/2006 2:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dromed
He's already proved in other instances that he has a particualr gripe with a particular band and is using his position as a journalist with a national paper to vent some spleen.
Oh really?
I didn't realize that...haven't read The Ticket in years.
Maybe that does invalidate it a bit then.
I thought it was just an interesting case-study. |
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Una Veteran Member Posts:1721
| 9/15/2006 2:30 PM |
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it is an interesting case study, but journalists aren't robots - of course they have different tastes and preferences - as Protein Biscuit said, it is an opinion piece, and, I think, a perfectly valid one. It is of course, unfortunate for Humanzi themselves as people that their careers as musicians mightn't be going as well as they like. They do seem to be incredibly hard-working and determined.
The main reason that there is a substantial reaction to this column on a board like this is not that Jim Carroll is out of order, but that Humanzi - like every Irish band - are very close to home.
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PeachesNew Member Posts:31
| 9/15/2006 2:45 PM |
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Jim Carroll can ask me left one.
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PeachesNew Member Posts:31
| 9/15/2006 2:55 PM |
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It is not an interesting case study-if it were then it would read as a balanced article irrespective of journalistic opinion, when in fact it is yet another scathing and vindictive attack from this very bitter & immature hack. ![](/snitz/images/icon_smile_angry.gifborder="0") |
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UnicronVeteran Member Posts:1696
| 9/15/2006 3:22 PM |
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It does raise one interesting issue. Have Humanzi been mishandled in terms of publicity and marketing in Ireland? When their deal was announced way back when it got people talking a lot about them but in the end it took (seemingly) forever to get the album out. Perhaps too much of a lag between the 2 events made people get bored of the band before they'd even bought the record?
Additionally I don't think the style of campaign to market them did them many favours. It seemed to me that it was the sort of NME style hype campaign that would work in the UK but whether it's "Irish begrudgery" or just that we're less susceptible to these things but I don't think it did them many favours. Hope it works out for both them and The Immediate though.
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benni Advanced Member Posts:947
| 9/15/2006 3:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peaches
It is not an interesting case study-if it were then it would read as a balanced article irrespective of journalistic opinion, when in fact it is yet another scathing and vindictive attack from this very bitter & immature hack.
thats it isnt it
When the ole discussion starts to get indepth on their haircuts and clothes I just switch off - its a fairly lazy argumentative point and one that is wholley tiresome to read at this point.
the fact that some of the comments are quite vicious in approach take away any validity of the piece as a subjective article
Of course journos have tastes but in fairness a professional journalist should note the difference between an article and a f**king letters page!
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PeachesNew Member Posts:31
| 9/15/2006 4:09 PM |
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Benni as ever , you are a wise and wondrous soul.
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UnaVeteran Member Posts:1721
| 9/15/2006 4:20 PM |
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who has an agenda here, in reality, a journalist commenting on an interesting situation of marketing and making music or fans of a band?
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melvin cokaneNew Member Posts:37
| 9/15/2006 4:23 PM |
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i used to go to see them live. thought they were brilliant in whelans around a year and a half ago therebouts.
From an investing point of view, they have been pointless.
500 copies is dreadful. Not necessarily to say the band are dreadful, but the return in revenue for the amount spent is crap. And if I were the accountant at universal who was budgeting for their future expenditure I wouldn’t give them a bean.
I have to say I am not terribly surprised, and this is not specifically because I dislike the band etc….. as I said I used to enjoy going to see them. The majority of debut albums hit high in the charts do so on the back of a successful single, normally speaking. And I know mtv2 played the videos, but I couldn’t tell you the last time I heard a humanzi single on the radio. And with the exception of the 500 punters who love local music I don’t know of any of my “neutral” friends (who would actively buy music but not necessarily be in temple bar every weekend) who have even heard of them. So from that point of view I’d agree with the sentiment of the article.
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PeachesNew Member Posts:31
| 9/15/2006 4:26 PM |
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Once again, this is not a journalist commenting on an interesting marketing strategy. While there are obviously comments here from fans of the band -myself included- this was just another pathetic attempt by Jim Carroll to drag Humanzi's name through the mud. Regardless of what knowledge one has of the band, this is plain to see. There was no need whatsoever for it but begrudgery on his part.
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Protein biscuit Basic Member Posts:364
| 9/15/2006 4:29 PM |
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Well case-study it ain't.
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UnaVeteran Member Posts:1721
| 9/15/2006 4:36 PM |
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ok, ok, I'm not going to argue on the behalf of someone, but I just think, unless you are actually a fan of the band (and personally I am a fan of very few bands to be honest, there's a difference between liking someone's music and being a fan, obviously), the article offers a pretty fair and interesting opinion.
From a critic's point of view, I can see where he is coming from because with my music journalist's hat on, Humanzi were hyped, and one always has to be skeptical of hype, they were offered support slots of incredible value on the back of limited productivity, and as a journalist, one always has to question the reasons why something like this would happen. And finally, again, from a critic's point of view (and often, a critic's opinion of music is markedly different to a normal music buyer, given that they are exposed to far more material, generally speaking) Humanzi's music will always fall flat because it simply isn't of significant critical value. That's the way things go, that's why critics are critics because they generally favour the artistic / avant guarde merit of something over an attempt at mass appeal and that's why Antony & The Johnsons won the Mercury Music Prize and not the Kaiser Chiefs.
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| 9/15/2006 4:42 PM |
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Hmmmh i read the article again and as i was going down through it i was thinking whats the big deal ?? why is there people who thinkits an attack and then i got to this ....''The reason for the band's failure to connect with the public becomes clear when the needle hits the record. Humanzi turn out to be the bastard sons of the Golden Horde, hawking empty, ludicrous and exasperatingly banal Transition Year polemic about diet pills and magazines. Tremors contains absolutely nothing more than a lot of hot air and a very bad smell.''
Now that IS a bit harsh . If he has a problem the way they were handled or the persona's they use to sell records fair enough but it does turn into a bit of an attack here .
Even though i have to agree with him .
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DromedAdvanced Member Posts:900
| 9/15/2006 4:50 PM |
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So the backlash begins....but it still doesn't change the fact that Jim Carroll has slated the band from the start at any available opportunity.
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benniAdvanced Member Posts:947
| 9/15/2006 5:02 PM |
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One more on the obsession with their looks – which seems to ALWAYS find its way into discussions about them – I find it hilarious that whenever a band looks good, has attractive band members or wears nice clothes – or puts loads into their look on stage – it is ALWAYS used as a weapon against them.
Yet go for the quiet introverted, inoffensive ‘I’m a delicate indieboy with jumper sleeves over my wrist’ – its like a f**king golden ticket.
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melvin cokaneNew Member Posts:37
| 9/15/2006 5:16 PM |
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I wouldnt say that they even look cool, whatever that is, but stick a photo of the strokes next to humanzi and its plain to see who looks more natural. The strokes look the part, humanzi look a bit silly.
I think the failure of the band to shift more than 500 copies is partially down to the fact that they were touted as an image product more so than the music.
I think they are probably nice guys and the times writer may have been a little personal but thats life and thats business.
But its not as bad as someone not buying your record.I mean the very mention of the band in an article of a newspaper nationally circulated might prick a few ears to lean in their direction.
but being honest and its the last i'll say on the issue, I dont think and never have thought that they were the best band in Dublin.
I'd leave that to Delorentos....or Hybrazil...discuss :)
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ctrlaltdeleteBasic Member Posts:268
| 9/15/2006 5:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by benni
One more on the obsession with their looks – which seems to ALWAYS find its way into discussions about them – I find it hilarious that whenever a band looks good, has attractive band members or wears nice clothes – or puts loads into their look on stage – it is ALWAYS used as a weapon against them.
Luckily for you guys, it will never be used as a weapon against Stagger Lee. ha ha. i kill myself. |
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benniAdvanced Member Posts:947
| 9/15/2006 5:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ctrlaltdelete
quote:
Originally posted by benni
One more on the obsession with their looks – which seems to ALWAYS find its way into discussions about them – I find it hilarious that whenever a band looks good, has attractive band members or wears nice clothes – or puts loads into their look on stage – it is ALWAYS used as a weapon against them.
Luckily for you guys, it will never be used as a weapon against Stagger Lee. ha ha. i kill myself.
DEAD ![](/snitz/images/icon_smile_blackeye.gifborder="0") |
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UnaVeteran Member Posts:1721
| 9/15/2006 5:52 PM |
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Benni, I completely agree with you on the looks thing, it's a cheap, lame and irrelevent shot - and I mean this in general, I'm not talking about any specific article or band or anything.
Rock and roll has always been about image, so bringing it up in a review or discussion about the quality of a band is kind of redundant.
Humanzi have clearly worked their balls off - touring constantly around this country and others so they must be really dissapointed with how the sales went. Nevertheless, hopefully it will be a incentive for them to keep going and make more music. Perhaps then can use the discourse surrounding their band to prove those who doubt them wrong and those who support them right. It is, afterall about the tunes and I look forward to hearing more from them in the future.
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BinokularVeteran Member Posts:1665
| 9/15/2006 8:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Una
my music journalist's hat on, Humanzi were hyped, and one always has to be skeptical of hype
With my amateur music journo hat on, I say a good music journalist disregards hype and it doesn't color his opinion in any way. I think a reader simply wants and interesting opionion on the band and their music and are they any good or what? Readers already know if a band is hyped or not. If a band is hyped then fails to live up to that hype in terms of commercial success, why should it change your opinion of the band? I mean you've heard the record, that should be enough, is it good? yay or nay. I say this as someone who never gave a rats arse about humanzi, I found them a bit mediocre, but that's no reason to be unfair to them.
"Music Journalist" and "Industry Commentator" aren't mutually incompatable, tough I did say just and industry commentator. Anyway, badly phrased, to make what I was getting at more clear, the guy was using the bands lack of commercial success to call into question their credibility and artistic merit. That in my opinion is really, really low.  |
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