Pilchard Advanced Member Posts:699  
| 11/26/2005 4:48 PM |
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maybe what we can we expect from now on are loads of irish "firework" bands!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/fridayreview/story/0,12102,1472110,00.html
not, of course, that delorentos have just arrived overnight or anything, but remember to those who dont follow form like cluas-ers, it will appear to be an overnight thing
sniffee's mail above is v good because it does recognise that talent in itself is not enough to make this kind of splash, it may attract industry attention but it is the industry attention coupled with the talent that makes the splash
roxy said the band were self-managed until recently - if they were still self-managed, they could still have got this level of attention but i doubt it. talent is just 5 percent of the equation, whether u like it or not, the rest is down to luck, contacts and context.
i may be wrong but i dont think u can point in the direction of any irish band who have been able to make a decent splash for themselves without the help of industry contacts. its how this industry works, people.
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Sniffee New Member Posts:28
| 11/26/2005 4:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by roxy
Snifee, I can appreciate what you're saying - genuinely. But does it really have to be as sinister as you seem to be making out? It is not fairly logical that a band that are good will find themselves with an increasingly loyal following on the back of a series of good gigs?
Band plays well, audience go home thinking "hrm, they're pretty good".
Band annoucnes next date. Previous audience members think "hey, I'm gonna go to that and I'm going to recommend to my friend that they go too coz I think they'll really like them". Band plays well. New recruits think "hey, they ARE good, I'm really glad I went to see them". And so it continues exponentially.
Is it not possible that the magic 506 who squished into Whelans recently to see them might have been an amalgamation of audiences from previous gigs? Could it be that word of the band's talent had spread and that the 506 people contained a lot of people who had never seen them before but had come along out of curiosity to check them out? Maybe it was made up partly of people who heard the band's single every night for a week on Pet Sounds a few months earlier and who felt they'd like to hear more.
I think this is all perfectly natural and I don't think a band should necessarily be made to feel that they're being overhyped and that their rising popularity is being controlled by the rather disingenuous factors that you're referring to.
I'm all for a nice bit of cynicism when it's called-for,  , but I don't really think your cynicism is necessarily well-placed with regard to Delorentos.
But as I said, I'm not having a go at your argument - I think it's highly valid in its own way, but just not in this instance.
But sure, live and let live. 
Roxy, I'm loath to disagree with you, as you're one of the very few who have genuinely championed these guys - and not just these guys -all down the line. To (begin to) answer your points (got a footie match to dash off to in a min...),
There's nothing 'sinister' going on at all - I'm simply analysing the way the thing seems to work - our tastes are 'educated' in various ways. A bit like in politics - even before the electorate gets to vote, the party machine has to kick in in favour of one candidate over many others.
*I kicked off the discussion about tastemakers because of Humanzi more than Delorentos - Humanzi would not be given the time of day were it not for their management. You know that, I know that. Same with Republic of Loose, to name just one more.
*Delorentos is more complex, I'll grant you. In singling them out, I'm just asking the question - why them and not 25 other Dublin bands who have impressed people at gigs? Which is not to say they're not a good band - or that their personal integrity is not absolutely established - they have a terrific reputation on the scene as nice and honest guys. (& Aurora, I'm sure you can vouch for that.) But I know of plenty good bands made up of decent people who have worked their behinds off, received loud cheers at gigs, made good demo's/singles, etc. etc. There's something else in play here that is giving Delorentos an edge, and I'm sorry but I don't believe it's music.
*Let's look at this from another angle, Roxy. Let's play a game. Could I invite you (or anyone else who's eavesdropping) to make a prediction NOW, on the basis of pure musical talent and star quality, by naming three unsigned Irish acts who you reckon will make it big in the near future? I guess hindsight makes me suspicious... |
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| 11/26/2005 7:43 PM |
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It must just be *star* quality then! |
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Unicron Veteran Member Posts:1696
| 11/26/2005 7:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Sniffee
how would you compare the band you saw in your first review in January to the band that played Whelans? If they were in any way comparable in quality, I would have thought that the band which took to the stage in Whelans to support 66e were already so mind-blowingly special as to merit more than a measly 30-odd words of text. Hardly "I've seen the future, and his name is Bruce Springsteen" or Bill Graham's U2 epiphany, is it?
As far as I'm concerned they're a better band now then they were back in January, much more self assured on stage but not by much. By the way I've never described them as mind blowingly special, they're a very good band and better than a lot of bands on MTV2 but change the world they will not. As to why I only gave them 30 odd words for the first review, well we've got a character limit on the reviews which I exceeded on my first draft and I needed to cut stuff out. I was there after all to review 66e, not Delorentos so the coverage of the support acts was the first to suffer.
And with all due respect I think you're somewhat picking and choosing to support your argument as well, the Crawdaddy review does not merely credit them with drawing a respectable crowd (that line was written in the context of the gig being on the same night that U2 were playing) but calls them "one of the best unsigned bands in the country". |
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| 11/26/2005 11:35 PM |
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Sniffee,in consideration of the points you have raised some of which are very good ....but, you also seem to have taken a position of putting your own particuler spin on the reviews as they were reported , this could be conscrued as attempting to lead the views of others which is what you are suggesting the tastemasters are doing ?( might even be considered sour grapes !! ) not that I am suggesting that this is what you are expressing > I agree that there are a lot of great bands out their ( at leat 119 in the HWCH )and probably a whole more that did not make it into that particuler festival . Hard work meeting oppertunity has been offered as a defination of luck, Delorentos have definetly worked hard, looks like oppertunity has arrived !  |
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UnicronVeteran Member Posts:1696
| 11/27/2005 1:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Aurora
> I agree that there are a lot of great bands out their ( at leat 119 in the HWCH )
Methinks you're beig a bit generous there, if there was 20 bands approaching good at HWCH they'd be doing well. |
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SniffeeNew Member Posts:28
| 11/27/2005 5:11 PM |
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I gotta repeat myself here, cos people are still missing my point. I'm not criticising Delorentos AT ALL. They're a good band who deserve any success coming their way. They have humility and common sense in spades - ironically enough, two precious assets for long-term rock stardom. I detest begrudgery of any sort, particularly when it comes in its Irish strain. May they be signed. May they become one of those rare bands who get noticed for having a certain 'now' sound but go on to grow into their own individual sound. May they break out of Ireland and have a real impact on the international scene over several years. May they look back on the long years of slog and say "We fcuking DID it!"
My critical point related to the role of tastemakers, not musicmakers.
To take the heat out of the discussion, let's take an analogy - the Booker Prize for literary fiction. John Banville writes a book called The Sea. A few copies trickle out of bookshops. A small panel of judges awards it a prize. The SAME book suddenly becomes flavour of the month with the book-buying public. If you reply that, well, John Banville works hard and deserves the break and the novel is really very well written, I'll politely reply that I agree but that you are missing my point: which is that *a numerically tiny number of tastemakers has, for good or for ill, just determined the taste of a numberically large number of people*, who judge a book not by its cover but by the 'WINNER OF MAN BOOKER PRIZE' sticker on its cover.
Having worked in the music industry both in the UK and here for over eight years, I've seen this phenomenon played out many times. The Guardian article which Pilchard points to gives a brilliant analysis of this - a band is ordained, the herd follows. It is a dangerous dangerous process, because what the tastemaker giveth, the tastemaker can take away. Witness Terris. This can also wreck the head of a good band trying to break through but getting nowhere - what are we doing wrong?? are we jinxed?? why are doors not opening?? should we speed up our choruses?? No, chances are the reason you're stuck is that the tastemakers haven't taken you under their wing (yet...) Don't assume it's anything intrinsically to do with you.
Meteors New Irish Band? I'm for The Immediate, with Delorentos in second place. Pax?
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| 11/27/2005 10:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Sniffee
Meteors New Irish Band? I'm for The Immediate, with Delorentos in second place. Pax?
Well, like, who really uses the Meteors as any sort of yardstick? The band that wins the Best New Irish Act will not necessarily be the next band to break out of Ireland.
In a nutshell, the Meteors mean very little. Anyone know off hand who even won in the same category last year? Nope, neither can I, and I know that I would've been paying as much attention to last year's awards as this year's. Music awards are an incredibly fleeting achievement in my mind.
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SniffeeNew Member Posts:28
| 11/27/2005 10:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by roxy
quote:
Originally posted by Sniffee
Meteors New Irish Band? I'm for The Immediate, with Delorentos in second place. Pax?
Well, like, who really uses the Meteors as any sort of yardstick? The band that wins the Best New Irish Act will not necessarily be the next band to break out of Ireland.
In a nutshell, the Meteors mean very little. Anyone know off hand who even won in the same category last year? Nope, neither can I, and I know that I would've been paying as much attention to last year's awards as this year's. Music awards are an incredibly fleeting achievement in my mind.
Ah jeez, Roxy, I was just tryin' to be nice.
Come to think of it, didn't Republic of Loose win Best Hope last year? Q.E. bloody D. |
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| 11/28/2005 1:35 AM |
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was it not Angels Of Mons??
...sorry, im not giving the awards any more credabilty here, am i?
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PilchardAdvanced Member Posts:699
| 11/28/2005 9:02 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mattso
was it not Angels Of Mons??
...sorry, im not giving the awards any more credabilty here, am i?
the problem with the meteors is transparency. the public vote is hugely abused. a band with loads of cousins and friends and fans can get them to text like billy-o and thus push them up the rankings. and no-one knows who decides on the winners in other categories - has there ever been a full list of the judges?
look at something like the Mercurys. The judges names are published when the nominations are published. its really upfront, nothing hidden. leaving aside the basic question do we need awards (and i dont really think we do), the mercurys at least are open about who's involved. you dont get bands winning just cos they're either (a) at the event or (b) happen to be promoted by the same company who promote the awards. just sayin'....
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| 11/28/2005 11:09 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mattso
was it not Angels Of Mons??
...sorry, im not giving the awards any more credabilty here, am i?
Actually, I think it was Angels of Mons indeed. I remember coz Delorentos then went on to beat them a few nights later in the NSMAs. Heh.
Actually, Sniffee, I'm wondering do I know you? Have I ever come across you outside Cluas, or vice versa, or indeed...both?
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