Lets recap on my thoughts a) I don't much like Coldplay b) I love Country Music c) I think 'Til Kingdom Come' is crap d) Johnny Cash did not either compose, co-compose or record 'Til Kingdom Come' e) This is a music discussion board where people air their views on music. f) There is a difference between wanting to collaborate and actually collaborating just as there is a difference between wanting to go to see U2 in Croke Park and actually going to see U2 in Croke Park.

Lordy, lord.

Why am I reminded of the energiser bunny? ya know, flick the right switch and he just keeps going and going...

This week on Dr.Phil...

vandala, binokular, norman - you might think there's something wrong with the fact that i'm not prepared to take s**t from rev jules, that's your opinion, you're entitled to it, and to be honest i'd have to be dead to care less. the reality is that this was a reasonably interesting discussion until rev jules decided to try to wind me up with typical bulls**t, insults etc. maybe you'd be happy to accept a post like "Check your own posts Yoda, the quote I replied to was, "are you really saying that it is wrong for a band which is 'not in any way a country act' to collaborate with someone who is a 'country act'?" (Posted - 09 Jun 2005 : 12:57:18). Changing your story now are you or just not sure of what you are trying to say ?". i don't believe in letting people who attempt to manipulate and bully others do and say what they want. while i can and do laugh at the sheer pathetic childishness of the man, that doesn't mean i won't press him to either stand over what he has said, or else to admit that he has once again been talking through his arse. now i'm off to enjoy the sunshine and the company of good friends in the local beergarden...

Watch out the bees don't sting you.

Music is fun. I like music.

hahahaha, very good. OK, we better stop the messing (me included!) and get back to music or I'm just going to end up having to lock this thread, which would be a shame really. As Jules was saying, "Who would you think, apart from an artist like Cash (and we are talking here about actual discographies here and not wishlists) took great chances in their music ?" I think thats a question thats harder to answer than it first appears. A lot of artists like say New Order went off in a lot of different directions, but its hard to say if they were taking chances because they didn't have many "failed experiments", then you have people like Aphex Twin who have such a genius-prankster mythology built up around themselves that when they do release something rubbish, its just taken as "oh he's releasing rubbish because he wants to, he can do better, but he just enjoys messing with our heads" So I think all you can be definitive about is the artists who have really stuck their neck out, followed their muse, and got their fingers burnt with a record or two that didn't quite work. I think Neil Young probably figures in there somewhere, he's certainly released a couple of albums that have been erased from the critical radar and public conciousness. I'd love to hear the electronic albums he made! Also Cat Stevens, mainly known for his genteel folk music, really stuck his neck out in 1977 when he released a great 12" proto-electro instrumental called "Was Dog a Donut". I did a double take when I heard it first, surely its not THAT Cat Stevens? But yes, it is indeed Mr Cat "Wrote "Father and Son", "Morning has broken" and now cant even get on an Aeroplane" Stevens. Amazing!

Willie Nelson is another guy who has followed his muse, even to Reggae. Pat Boone, whose 'In A Metal Mood' showed a whole new side to that king of family friendly, easy listening would be another. His version of AC/DC's 'Its a long Way to the Top (If You Wanna Rock and Roll)' works out fine, against all the odds.

Are musicians who dramatically change what they do always being brave or is it sometimes cowardice? Take Radiohead for example, whenever they start a new record they throw out all the old methodology that they've used in the past and try to make the album in a new manner, now you could say that it's very brave to ditch a successful formula but one could argue that they do it because they fear that they won't top what came before using the same methods, some acts spend 2 or 3 albums refining how they do things until they reach their peak, had they continued on the same path post OK Computer how good could the last few records have been? Of course the counter argument to that is that some acts basically remake the same record multiple times and eventually run out of ideas (hellllllooooo Coldpaly ).

while commercial and critical factors will obviously have some effect, i really don't think true artists/musicians etc change will their whole philosophy based on what the fans/critics might think. across the whole of the arts, true artists follow their own convictions, their own beliefs - and when they choose to do that, even in the face of criticism or commercial failure, that's courage. i'd imagine that was why bob dylan moved away from (or, as many of his fans felt, "betrayed") his folk roots, why radiohead wrote kid a, why joyce wrote finnegan's wake, why schoenberg invented serialism. i think it's when musicians/artists start working from some other motivation, like making more money, or avoiding negative criticism, that's when they become cowards. so, to answer unicron's question, i think... it depends!