stroller Advanced Member Posts:576  
| 4/19/2005 9:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Binokular
In the meantime, all I can say is bring back MUZIK magazine!
And while you're at it bring back Jockey Slut. Now there was a magazine you could trust. |
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Una Veteran Member Posts:1721
| 4/19/2005 9:18 PM |
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"The Sunday supplements are usually good with the 'I Magazine' having good reviews (mostly from Edel Coffey or Neil Dunphy)"
Edel Coffey isn't really up to much. She seems to know very little about the albums she reviews
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UnaVeteran Member Posts:1721
| 4/19/2005 9:20 PM |
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"Is it just me or does Jim Carroll just give out about everything? I can think of several topics off the top of my head that writes at least three articles a year about;
1. The lack of ambition and quality in Ireland's current music scene which he dismisses as a bunch of singer songwriters hanging around Whelan’s trying to get their picture taken with Glen Hansard"
I always laugh HARD when I read about that Whelan's s**t. Everyone knows that that particular 'scene' has been dead on its feet for a couple of years
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PilchardAdvanced Member Posts:699
| 4/19/2005 10:09 PM |
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so una who do YOU actually rate??? i've noticed that some people are great at slagging off writers, but who do you think is actually any cop??
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PilchardAdvanced Member Posts:699
| 4/19/2005 10:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stroller
quote:
Originally posted by Pilchard
i would say that The Ticket has f**k all to do with the dublin music scene. go to thumped.com, search for "dublin music scene" and "the ticket" and see what they have to say!!! Jim carroll in the Ticket has written some really tough anti-Dublin music scene pieces so i dont think obsession is the right word.
Is it just me or does Jim Carroll just give out about everything? I can think of several topics off the top of my head that writes at least three articles a year about;
1. The lack of ambition and quality in Ireland's current music scene which he dismisses as a bunch of singer songwriters hanging around Whelan’s trying to get their picture taken with Glen Hansard
2. The failure of Irelands radio and television stations to dedicate anytime to quality music (although he always conveniently ignores Rna G's excellent an taobh tuathail show).
3. Irelands Archaic licensing laws and their detrimental effect on our nation's ailing club scene.
While all these points are fairly spot on he's getting a bit repetitive at this stage. I just wish that he'd write a positive piece every know and again instead of just recycling the same old whinging arguments. Is there anything that the man actually likes? Besides Donal Dineen, I-pods and Jay Z of course (the "best lyricist in hip-hop" my hole!)
the problem with all columnists is that they have pet subjects and they keep on going at them again and again - look at kevin myers, tom humphries, michael ross etc. its what gets them riled and yes, they do get repetitive but at least they do so in an interesting and/or amusing way. otherwise, they'd be sakced and the editor of The Ticket would be onto Cluas.com looking for all the brilliant would-be jim carrolls here to take over his job. er, there are brilliant would-be jim carrolls here, arent they?? maybe we should just email the ticket and get them to take us all on.
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UnaVeteran Member Posts:1721
| 4/19/2005 10:19 PM |
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I've already listed the publications and journos I like in this thread, no? Kitty Empire @ Sunday Observer, Totally Dublin for reviews, blogcritics can be OK sometimes. Rockfeedback.com is one of the best for reviews, with Toby the best writer. and I read with pinches of salt; pitchfork, Rolling Stone for reviews (although they're behind on a lot of stuff), Interview magazine for, um, interviews, The Weekly Dig from Boston when I can get my hands on it, The Onion for interviews
Actually, the magazine I read mostly is Q because I have a subscription, I don't think you could complain about the writers there, apart from the fact that they all seem to be coming from the same mindset and are all men, but hey, that's music journalism.
And I don't think I 'slag off' anybody. It's pretty fair criticism overall. The conclusion has to be drawn that there are more average writers than good writers. But, with everything, most of it is s**t (apart from crack)
I don't really rate any Irish music journalists highly, but that's not because they happen to be Irish, it's just because they seem to be middle aged men who don't go out much and only listen to rock music. C'est la story.
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PilchardAdvanced Member Posts:699
| 4/19/2005 10:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Una
I don't really rate any Irish music journalists highly, but that's not because they happen to be Irish, it's just because they seem to be middle aged men who don't go out much and only listen to rock music. C'est la story.
i'd love to see how the following Irish music journalists (good, bad or indifferent as they may be as writers) fit into your simplistic "middle aged men who dont go out much and only listen to rock music" list
Edel Coffey
Anna Carey
Sinead Gleeson
Eamon Sweeney
Jim Carroll
Tanya Sweeney
Barry O'Donoghue
Richard Brophy
Paul McNamee
John Meagher
Mick Heaney
Leagues O'toole
no middle-aged rock bores there. a few men, but sure u can't have everything, una
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UnaVeteran Member Posts:1721
| 4/19/2005 10:27 PM |
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none of these people are great, compared to what you could be reading
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Rev JulesVeteran Member Posts:1041
| 4/19/2005 10:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Una
none of these people are great, compared to what you could be reading
Yes, I understand the Event Guide makes Lester Bangs look like an amateur.  |
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UnaVeteran Member Posts:1721
| 4/19/2005 10:31 PM |
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Whatever! I'm not being down on people just becuse they're Irish, but these aren't GREAT music writers, is all I'm saying.
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PilchardAdvanced Member Posts:699
| 4/19/2005 10:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Una
Whatever! I'm not being down on people just becuse they're Irish, but these aren't GREAT music writers, is all I'm saying.
una - did u not read what I wrote at the top of that list??? i'd love to see how the following Irish music journalists (good, bad or indifferent as they may be as writers).... I'm not getting at your opinion of them as writers, just that ridiculous juvenile generalisation that all irish writers are middle-aged males who listen to rock and dont go out. i mean, what age do u think they are?? no, no, hold on, what the f**k does AGE have to do with it???
the greatest music writer i ever read was Bill Graham. he wrote for Hot Press and my God, u bought Hot Press because he was an amazing writer, go find his stuff online. read it, learn from it. thats what a writer is supposed to be. bill, he started wriitng about music when he was 25 and kept writing about it untl he died at 50-something. he may have been middle-aged but he certainly didnt have a middleaged outlook on life or music
similarly with the best music writers - it doesnt matter a toss how old they are as long as they can still get excited about new music and fresh music and new things.
will u still be writing about music for the event guide when u grow up? |
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UnaVeteran Member Posts:1721
| 4/19/2005 10:51 PM |
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This isn't about my writing.
yeah, that was a generalisation on my behalf, completely. I just wanted to draw out the debate. For me, personally, there is not one Irish music writer I would get excited about. But, that statement itself is pretty redundant, because nationality shouldn't really relate to the quality of writing. I only mention it because I am Irish and live in Ireland and therefore have larger access to Irish music writing than any other.
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PilchardAdvanced Member Posts:699
| 4/19/2005 11:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Una
This isn't about my writing.
yeah, that was a generalisation on my behalf, completely. I just wanted to draw out the debate. For me, personally, there is not one Irish music writer I would get excited about. But, that statement itself is pretty redundant, because nationality shouldn't really relate to the quality of writing. I only mention it because I am Irish and live in Ireland and therefore have larger access to Irish music writing than any other.
well lets draw out the debate then
Lets starts with age. Why did u bring age into it? Do u have some hang-up about this? Do u think writers should stop writing about pop music once they reach, what. 21? 25? 30? 33? why these ages? whats wrong with middle-aged men writing about music???
the fact that u are a music writer has a lot to do with this debate. If u think u are a good writer (and u obviously do because u have the balls to write for a mag), have u tried writing for another mag? I dont know what the Event Guide pays but I can't imagine its fantastic money. Have u ever got onto, say, The Ticket and said u could do better than their staff? Have u? What was their reply?
nationality also has a lot to do with this debate although in a different way to that which u imply above. irish writers write about irish bands and, by and large and with a few exceptions, most irish bands get written about first and usually most extensively by irish writers. so we should be debating and discussing how irish music writers treat irish bands. cluas, to be fair, usually does and it;'s one of the reasons why i spend so much time that i should be working or doing something else here.
I find that the vast majority of those who take pot shots at Irish music hacks wish they had their jobs. I dont wish I was a music writer - I am perfectly happy doing what I do - but I love music with a passion. Ever since I started to listen to music, I have read as much about music and the stories behind music as I can. Because of this, there are certain writers I have come to admire and respect but yes, I can see why others would not agree with the writers i would like. However juvenile potshots based on silly generalisations are not valid criticisms in my book.
if u want to extend the debate una, lets have some reasoned points on the above
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UnaVeteran Member Posts:1721
| 4/19/2005 11:45 PM |
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well, I don't particularly discriminate RE: age, because obviously, good writing is about practice and experience. BUT I think you'll find that younger people tend to be more in tune with changing trends in music.
I don't think I'm taking 'pot shots' at anybody. I respect everyone who does what they want to do.
I don't see myself as a 'music writer', writing for a music magazine is one of the things I do. And belive me, I wouldn't be doing it if I wasn't getting paid.
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GarVeteran Member Posts:1676
| 4/20/2005 1:02 AM |
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There are alot of really good Irish writers out there, in fact I reckon we have the best Sports Writer (Tom Humphries) and Film Critic (Michael Dwyer) around. Here are some who do deserve recognition:
Tayna Sweeney; she has finally been given bigger features/interviews to cover in Hotpress and is by far their best writer. Always championing Irish acts and writes with an indiviual style that always intrigues.
Jim Carroll; his status has grown over the years and sometimes it feels that even the editor is afraid to touch his copy, but still a cracking writer once he gets going.
Kevin Courtney; his snapshot singles reviews are great fun to read and he does the odd review which is ok.
Edel Coffey; she is pretty good as spreads her usage of adjectives well and writes with an ease.
Mick Heaney; this man is really a great writer, he can destroy a band or make them into Godlike figures all with such a small wordcount.
Leagues O'Toole; really grounded writer with extensive knowledge and nice flair.
Ed Power; improving all the time, liking his work lately especially his reviews.
Andrew Lynch; who you might ask - he does the cd reviews for www.entertainmentireland.ie - while he has to cover some bad albums, he juggles them all with a skill that is very interesting on a weekly basis
That's eight music writers for various publications who really do deserve their paycheck and readership. I think some of the writers on Cluas are really good too, but you are all aware of those people by now (shame on you if you're not). The problem is not the lack of GREAT Irish writers, it's the lack of a great Irish music magazine where all the best writers can have their work showcased and appreciated. If you gathered those eight journalists together in one magazine aswell as some fresh, young, ambitious writers with concentration on interesting content and good layout...well then that would be some magazine.
Critics do get old and can get out of touch with the scene. This is usually evident when a review or feature feels like an edited press release. And there are some writers currently making a living in Ireland this way, not mentioning any names. But that doesn't mean that the aforementioned eight writers aren't worth the public's attention. In every publication there will be a review or article that could've been better, same with the writers.
What's so great about the reviews in 'Totally Dublin'? There's no rating on them and half the time you can't figure out if they like the album or not. Sometimes they are jubbled messes of fancy words plus they always attach some obscure 'if you like this then listen to these bands' at the bottom. I think they are pretty bad reviews, rivalling a few other free magazines currently circulating.
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PilchardAdvanced Member Posts:699
| 4/20/2005 8:38 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Una
well, I don't particularly discriminate RE: age, because obviously, good writing is about practice and experience. BUT I think you'll find that younger people tend to be more in tune with changing trends in music.
Two words Una - john peel. Two more words - david fricke (happily middle-aged rolling stone writer who writes about more challenging and exciting new pop music than u can imagine). And two more words for good measure - Bill Graham (see previous mail). all of them are very much in tune with changing trends, much much much more so than many people who may be young in age but are very old in attitude
the good writers get better as they get older especially when their prejudices change. the best jazz writers, for instance, are grey hairs because they have seen it all and can recognise great new talent. i know writing about rock/pop may not seem to be the same but rock/pop now has a history and a heritage and u need writers who can recognise the connections and make the links. u need writers who know who The Fall are as much as who Bloc Party are.
quote:
Originally posted by Gar
That's eight music writers for various publications who really do deserve their paycheck and readership. I think some of the writers on Cluas are really good too, but you are all aware of those people by now (shame on you if you're not). The problem is not the lack of GREAT Irish writers, it's the lack of a great Irish music magazine where all the best writers can have their work showcased and appreciated. If you gathered those eight journalists together in one magazine aswell as some fresh, young, ambitious writers with concentration on interesting content and good layout...well then that would be some magazine.
Critics do get old and can get out of touch with the scene. This is usually evident when a review or feature feels like an edited press release. And there are some writers currently making a living in Ireland this way, not mentioning any names. But that doesn't mean that the aforementioned eight writers aren't worth the public's attention. In every publication there will be a review or article that could've been better, same with the writers.
as always Gar, u hit the nail on the head. I forgot about Ed Power (who has got better and better since he stopped writing for The Ticket) and Andrew Lynch (the most difficult reviewing job of all) so thanks for jogging my memory about them
u are right about the lack of a great (or even good) Irish music magazine. the fact that most of those writers u listed write for national newspapers is a shaming indicement of our lack of a dedicated music media - but, because i like to think of myself as an optimist, it's also a sign that commissioning editors at national newspapers know what they are doing. 10 years ago, we thought that HP was the only place to go to read about music. Now, we have widespread music coverage in the nationals which is way, way better than we could ever get from the so-called music media in this country. and then theres the online world which gets better and better too
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DaraghAdvanced Member Posts:666
| 4/20/2005 9:24 AM |
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Gar: Tom Humphries, i'll second that absolutely briliant writer, pity he doesnt write about music!
I think though, that people tend to want different things from music writers, some people want facts, some people want flair and entertainment, and obviously some writers will cater more towards one side of the spectrum than the other.
and i'm dead late for college,
oh theres also Cameron Crowe, some of his Rolling Stone articles were really good (thank you Almost Famous extra features) and he was waaaay too young to go on the road, age has nothing to do with it, its all about the writer.
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PilchardAdvanced Member Posts:699
| 4/20/2005 9:37 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Daragh
Gar: Tom Humphries, i'll second that absolutely briliant writer, pity he doesnt write about music!
he's a big Freddie White fan - see his book Laptop Dancing & The Nanny Goat Mambo! |
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GarVeteran Member Posts:1676
| 4/20/2005 2:26 PM |
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But still a cracking writer. I would recommend his two books to anyone - 'Laptop Dancing & The Nanny Goat Mambo' and 'Booked!'. Humphries is probably the best Irish journalist around right now. This is a thread about music magazines though so lets stick to that.
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