It seems that you are shifting the blame towards Dylan for a large percentage of Irish singer/songwriters who you dislike. Just because Dylan is an icon (and rightly so) and is extremely influential, doesn't mean that he is to blame when others try to copy what he has achieved and created. Woddy Guthrie and people like that started the folk singer/songwriter movement off but Dylan has been the one who has spiced it up through the decades with his injections of laudable pop, sulky folk, addictive rock and all of the other number of genres he has dipped his feet in. All of the artists you have mentioned from Frank Sinatra to Leonard Cohen to Buddy Holly have not reached the heights that Dylan's work ethic, songwriting skills, knack for reinventing his music, ability of using his vocals to great effect, etc etc has. The Beatles are regarded by many to be the greatest band of all time (you also cited Buddy Holly as having a major impact on their music, what about Beach Boys , Rolling Stones and Bach ), were clearly influenced by Dylan to which they produced great albums like 'Rubber Soul', 'The Beatles' and 'Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band'. Thanking Dylan for albums like that would in turn thank Dylan for so many great artists from Van Morrison to The Band to Joan Baez.....the list is endless. Dylan's songwriting captures something more than a 'summer pop hit', although he does have his fair share of them, it captures the underbelly of society, the taboo subjects in life, the tender feelings of a relationship etc. You seem to be trying to pick holes in his lyrics with your earlier posts. Of course there are holes in there. What artist doesn't have holes in their writing, instrument playing, singing, all round musicianship? And it would lose an awful lot if everything was perfect, in key, on time and polished. Music taps the vulnerability and flaws within the artist and exploits them to an extent where the listener relates and draws comfort from the fact that the musician is only human too i.e. prone to mistakes. Dylan doesn't this brilliantly, writing with a consciousness that begs out for a certain vocal style or a harmonica insert. If you cannot hear melodies and intelligent lyrics in his music, then you simply have not listened to enough of his stuff with an open mind.

dylan just isn't an artist I like, and because he's an icon to millions I'm trying to understand why. he seems to be almost unquestionably revered. I'm not questioning him just for the sake of killing sacred cows, though... of course dylan isn't to 'blame' for inferior singer-songers; BUT if they so clearly follow his style, and if both he and they are hugely popular, and if (as someone with strong feelings about music) I feel that their status is questionable, then it's valid for me to question the genre of music and also the person who (maybe through no fault of his own) is regarded as the figurehead and innovator of that style. obviously, any example I give of a particular song or lyric will seem like 'picking holes' in the context of his many albums and songs. and of course my favourite artists have all written some poorer songs in their time. but I assure you all that I HAVE listened to plenty of dylan - first of all, he's inescapable in our popular culture! secondly, I've made the effort to listen and understand because he is held in such high regard by half of my record collection and it's natural to investigate the influences of ones' heroes. I just don't hear what you hear, gar and others who love him, when I listen to dylan - I can hear those qualities when tom waits sings 'grapefruit moon' or marvin gaye sings 'inner city blues' or dionne warwick sings 'anyone who had a heart' or in the first verse of 'a case of you' ("oh canada!!!" - so many feelings captured in just two words...).that's a matter of taste, of course - there are people who can't stand my heroes, such as bowie. HOWEVER, there are otherwise sensible professors of literature and cultural commentators who are making claims such as 'dylan is the greatest living user of the english language' (christopher ricks in his book 'dylan's visions of sin', backed up by bryan appleyard in the sunday times review of dylan's 'chronicles'). it is possible that he could someday be awarded the nobel prize for literature (there is a sizeable lobby of academics pushing for it). for me, this is something I have to question because to my mind it shows that the idolatry of dylan has gotten so far out of hand to be ridiculous. this in itself isn't dylan's 'fault', but it's still necessary to question his reputation in this light.

Of course there are many reasons to question any artist's ability but with Dylan, I think that no matter what argument you put forward about his music on a whole, nothing will prove that he is undeserved of his icon status. I respect that you just don't get him but that's down to personal preferance, not that he is so bad that there is a lack of quality there. I agree with you on alot of matters (I'm a big fan of Tom Waits aswell as some of the other artists you mentioned) and I would ignore alot of the talk of a nobel prize for literature, but in terms of his releases Dylan is the best songwriter from the 60s to this day (which is a roundabout way to saying that he is the greatest ever). Yes, these are all opinions being shared but the evidence still remains of Dylan's musical superiority.

I suppose we won't fall out over it :D

Dylan = Legend. Simple as!

I think you have to go on your gut reaction to music and Dylan has always left me feeling...well...nothing really. His song writing may be good but the overall package leaves me cold. I think he's one of those artists that you are 'supposed' to like when truth be known far more people don't then would admit to.

thats definitely true, i hate that s**t, people claimin to be into someone cos its 'cool', its the Ramones t-shirt syndrome, and the skanger Bob Marley 'fans' who've never heard any of his studio albums, or ever even heard of the Wailers

As an overall package leaves me cold what is that supposed to mean jesus why say what can be said in four words in hundreds it doesnt make sense. to be honest i dont have the time or interest to argue with someone over whether bob dylan is good or bad.

i can't believe people are still arguing about Bob Dylan. Get over it! This is worse than arguing about the merits of Damien Rice.

Bob Dylan.....Damien Rice.....I do think there is a bit of difference there now.

Smart Arse

no, what I mean is, it's such a tired and rehashed and boring argument. It's like arguing about oasis V blur in 2011. The problem with rock music is its incessant backtracking, as clearing displayed on this thread. Let's get over it, shall we. PS, the Stones are better than the Beatles

Fair enough. The battle is over and I'll let that Beatles comment slide this time.