they're all a shower of c**ts!!!!

Cheers Jules. I might just do an OpEd on this whole debate. I have been slacking with my submissions lately but have to get back on track. Hopefully I will have some reviews up this week. And maybe then an OpEd the week after.

I like Whelans as a venue and have gone to great gigs there but someone said earlier about anyone can book Whelans. I have been told firstly by a few people, you are asked obviously who your band are, where you in another band, who your support is going to be. After they assess what type of a crowd you are going to pull they will give you a night early in the week. Then you never know if that night will be cancelled if another bigger band comes along, even though you have paid your money!! I know they are running a business and want to make money on the bar and so on, but they are not promoting the music industry who they are making their money from. What this country needs is more smaller venues, like the Attic, Fox and Pheasant with people running them that love music with a passion. Also need a decent music magazine that is not full of ads with good writers. Just a though if the syndicate with Whelans on board wins the new radio licence, will the only gigs in there be Mundy, Declan O'Rourke and so on. Will the music station only play these tunes!!

Interesting stuff here....Heres my opinion , hopefully it wont offend too many here, if it does feck ya! Whelans not so much a venue but a state of mind it would appear. Personally I dislike the place, think its far too highly rated as a venue to watch and play gigs. Staff are brutal and rude. Costs nothing to be polite and I think they sometimes forget they are paid to serve beer, some of them see themselves as some type of minor celebrities or something..."oh hang on a second there's John who knows Bill who I once saw sit with Glen and he smiled at me so I'll serve him first" ...huh? Meanwhile you're standing there for 20 mins until they begrudgingly give in and serve you with some kind of disgusted look on their faces. In fairness though, when Gavin Fox was there I always thought he did his job and didn’t act like some kind of ....what’s the term?...Knob Jockey Regarding the crowd, the crowd in general is changing all the time I think, a lot of Ben Sherman afficionados these days from my small number of recent and brief observations. No offence to anyone intended, there is a shift, its definitley less indie/alt and more mainstream/cool/ "metro sexual" (its new you know loike?). I used to think Whelans was populated by mopey, naval gazing, mid 20's D4, Church of Hansard types who were depressed cause Daddy wouldn’t lend them the BMW after the last time they crashed it locked out of there face on the way home on the Stillorgan dueller or something?...(My God I never realised how bitter and twisted I sound) I think that is less the case nowadays...maybe that was just some false perception I had cause I didn’t/ don’t fit in, I had problems ya see, therapist says my integration into society is almost complete (the shame.... the shame). Anyway to get back on topic, who is in the clique or lock in crowd? No doubt all the aforementioned Hansards and so on, but so what? They built their little buzz and have made their own successes, fair play, let them have it, become part of it or don’t its your choice but why is it necessary to begrudge them? Its not necessary at all there are plenty of other venues with plenty of other good things happening. Don’t get me wrong I find a lot of it pretty lame and there is anatmosphere of arrogance that you can pick up on from time to time....Im gonna open a can of worms here but think that it might be something to do with the levels of "recreational" substances consumed by a lot of the clientelle (Wow! what a generalisation I know). Everytime I’m in the place recently I have observed or have been offered some s**te or other, a couple of my mates have said the same(Who cares about you and your mates... whatever). Its the same elsewhere I accept, Whelans is probably no better or worse in this regard perhaps but a good venue is place where people go to see gigs ....most people go to Whelans, to go to Whelans if ya get me, that’s pretty naff, maybe they all want in on the in corwd. Wake up if everyones in there is no clique stop fooling yourselves….just kidding ….eh?! I could be wrong like I said its my opinion. I know Ive rambled off topic but If someone asked me where to go to get involved in new music in Ireland I dont think I would send them to Whelans as it would give a bad impression, a lot of good acts do play there, but as Herbie said "new acts" well, as explained above posts...In conclusion its not a friendly place, it is not a place that encourages new music and the bar staff suck big time. Also the place needs some new cds I think the occassional time Im hauled into the place there's always the same stuff on. Regarding the Phantom comment above, I think time will tell if they "sell out", I suspect that there will be a little more commercial control exercised out of necessity to keep the figures looking good but I do have a certain level of confidence that they will push new acts as they have done in the past. Oh really ? My personal experience with dealing with some bands around is that Phantom has opened some doors for them by getting more people exposed to the bands music, I can only presume they will honour there stance on this subject as outlined in their application, if anyone has a good reason to believe they wouldnt Id like to hear it? (Thats not an invitation to trade insults or whatever) A lot of waffle on nothing....I had some time to kill. All the best T

hey Pilchard .... dont misunderstand me here I dont want to blabber or cause offence but I reckon Phantom should be a given a bit of lee way here, I reckon they will deliver some valuable exposure to new bands , Im not suggesting they will champion bands as easily as they had done before there was a commercial interest but I believe they will be true to their roots as much as is possible should they be successful. I hope they are , they have done a lot already and from the submissions , phantoms seems a little more focussed and more to my taste, the zed target demograph seems very wide?( Not a critcism or whatever more an observation) You asked why they have to jump into bed with the likes of MCD , well I believe its because capital is required, in this small little playing field there are only a small number of people who can afford to play within the rules. Money is required because Phantom has to run a viable, professional entity that can pay folks and will attract investment .....if its not viable every muppett and their mother would be transmitting (cue debate)....at the end of the day some form of regulation , quality assurance needs to be implemented (thats the game!), the current set up ....in my un informed opinion seems more weighted to commercial viability than aesthetic merit, with end result being that stations need to put commercial realities first and other aesthitic preferences second. I think Phantom will continue to be a valuable resource and vehicle for bands to get their music out there in a way that no other station is currently doing, they have a niche maket to a degree and I think they will expand it and I believe it will be to the benefit of new acts coming through. From my own experience I know how difficult it can be to play ball with the other major players , phantom in my experience have great staff and people with a passion, we all watch with baited breath to see what happens....needless to say I hope Im proven correct. T PS Sell Out = Compromising ones ethics/morals/ideals for commercial, political, financial reward (my definition)

My posts are long and waffly . i like waffles I does.

Accept all your points fully , the issue is not with Phantom but in how they are forced to operate. I think most people would subscribe to this view. Like I said Im pretty un informed on this subject, I guess fundamentally this is the oldest arguement in the book when it boils downs to it...the artistic credibility V the need to turn a buck (To use a woefully american expression)

Sincere apologies to mod for going way off the Topic