whatever the reason,closing pubs and clubs early is hardly the answer now is it?

And more to the point, Jules do you actually think these rules will make the streets safer? I think that its good that someone is standing up and saying, "hey we have a problem" rather than trying to avoid it and I really sympathise with the family of Brian Murphy, but this is probably not the best way to tackle the issue. The thing is, if you limit the amount of time people can have on a night out. I think this will lead to an even less relaxed atmosphere with more emphasis on "getting the pints in" while you can rather than just relaxing, socialising and having a good time. Cork has had the blanket closures at 2AM for a while and from personal experience, I don't think this has improved things in the slightest. If anything its made them worse.

While I'd oppose in principle the actions of the police in this regard, it's simply not good enough to pile abuse upon them, and the State, without taking responsibility for our own actions. We have the second highest level of ethyl alcohol consumption in the EU -13 pure litres of the stuff for every adult every year. Alcohol related admissions to NEHB hospitals are up 80 per cent in the past 12 months. Neither the cops, nor McDowell, are forcing the stuff down our throats. At some point people will have to face the fact that, first and foremost, it's drinking to excess, and not the time the publican closes the till, that leads to the problems on Dame Street and other places. Of course a 1.30am booze curfew is ludicrous in a Western European society in 2004. But so is the soddom and gomorrah situation on the streets, even with staggered closing times. More and more people are rightly avoiding both by just staying at home. Also, it makes me laugh to see nightclub owners/companies initiating petitions on this matter. The same individuals/interests have been ripping off their customers for years. Now the greedy b*stards have copped a quick PR mechanism. By all means register a protest, but not through such channels as cited above.

unfortunately i dont think there is a quick fix solution to the problem. The problem lies deep in the mentality of yer typical 'scanger'(burberry cap at 45 degree angle,bumfluff moustache,straightleg jeans,big runners etc,)There is simply no accounting for this type of person,simple as

Spurtacus, we've all encountered the type you talk about and yeah, they exist, but thats just lazy stereotyping. Gotta agree with Thin Man, we all have got to take responsibility for our own actions and blaming the problem on one group, real or imaginary, achieves nothing.

yeah, in fairness like you should only be allowed drink late if your a certain type of person. we could introduce etiquitte and behavioural classes in school so people know how to speak and dress in a manner that is acceptable. im more afraid of the rugby types, they can actaully hurt you when they hit you. skangers just kind of bounce off me. im, er, kind of "jolly". as in im a big fatty!haha.

oh yeh,the sovvies man,its all about the sovvies! they leave a lovely imprint on an unsuspecting forehead!

sweet jaysus,a ben sherman chain,i dunno whether to laugh or cry..........

ive never gotten hassle of these guys you speak of, touch wood, theyre intimadating OK, but dont they just beat up each other and stuff, maybe its me or maybe its the shotgun i often carry over my shoulders, but they dont bother me at all.

When I stop seeing crowds of people staggering around the streets of Dublin at closing time like extras from a zombie movie, then I'll accept that we, as a nation, can handle booze responsibly and deserve the all night bars that we envy other countries having. I agree with you wholeheartedly Jules. I don't see the point in going out getting absolutely wasted but it's a national pass time here. It probably has alot to do with the weather and lack of other recreational activities but alot of people feel that's what being Irish is all about. At the moment it would be a disaster to have all night bars in Ireland. I have to disagree with your defence of the blanket closing time. Brian Murphy was killed on the street and not in a pub so the introduction of this rule would not effect this type of tragedy. It would merely concentrate them all at a particular time of the night, thus leading to absolute chaos in the streets. I agree it is down to the individual to exercise their own responsibilty but I also think that the government and the gardai should be tackling this at a much more fundamental level than to simply crack down on drunken disorder. Make sure people know exactly what they are doing to themselves so they can make an informed descision as to whether to get blind drunk or not, provide alternative means of recreation, basically exhaust all avenues of approach before reverting to imposing curfew type measures

Bottom line: if people want to get out of their minds with beer they do not need a pub. Yeah we've a problem, but if it was a simple as changing the closing hours do you not think it would have been recommended a few times by someone neutral to our situation? personally i dont care, pub culture in the towns and cities is down on what it was up to 4 years ago.

Have to agree with Optimus. I left Dublin in May after having a nervous breakdown (I don't use the term lightly) brought on largely by the utter fecklessness of people in the city, both on a national (government, policy) and on a interpersonal (man on the street) level. I'm also now living in the north of England (Liverpool), and despite occasional bouts of homesickness, am healthier, happier, and slightly better off. The problem with the city is as much to do with middle-class people as it is "scangers"; it's more to do with the utter lack of civility and self-indulgence all round. Okay, it's fair enough that people are going to be fairly stressed-out in a city so infuriatingly congested as Dublin, but the problem runs far deeper than that, I think. The old constructions of nationality/community have run aground, and what's left is a free-for-all: a huge percentage of people are angry, disempowered, constantly broke, and working far, far too hard just to make the rent on some miserable apartment that they're being ripped off for. When they go out for the night, they get people shouting at them...shouting to finish up their drinks, hurry up in the queue, get out of the way, etc, etc. Is it any wonder people get into fights? A very small percentage of people got rich in the early nineties because of the property "boom" (an exercise in developer-led manipulation if there ever was one) and the result is the creation of a society where the only kinds of people that can get by are the very rich and the very poor (state benefits, social housing, etc). It seems to me that there will very shortly be no longer a working-class OR a middle-class in Dublin: there'll just be an underclass who simply won't work because it isn't worth their while, and as a result hate most of the corporate types they see swanning around who are the only people who can afford to live there. The middle-class won't be able afford to live in the city any more either: the civil servants, the teachers, etc, particularly if they have children: they're all starting to move to places like Mullingar, Dundalk, anyway. And what will be left, then? Good cappacino, I guess. In my book, alcohol is the least of our problems. If you need convincing, go and have a look at: a) cocaine use in the city b) car ownership statistics in the city (as high as 80% amongst adults in the GREATER Dublin area?!!?!!) c) A book called The Construction of Dublin by Frank McDonald which outlines the whole re-zoning of land business in the 1980s and how it directly relates to social problems the city is having at the moment. d) The obsession with house prices: I actually heard someone on 5/7 Live suggest that if you don't have a mortgage by the time you're 30 you're a loser. (Recalls Thatcher's affirmation that anyone using public transport by the time they're 30 is, similarly, a loser. Finally, a quote to counter-act all the so-called scanger-bashing here... "Greed is a great motivator of people", Dermot Desmond. (Eircom) Never thought I'd say it, but I'd flog my passport in a minute...

...well, okay, maybe I was being a bit hasty saying I'd flog my passport, but it feels like that sometimes!

Vandala I couldnt have put most of that better myself. When I first started going into Dublin, people were friendly, polite(ish) and relatively decent. When I went back about 2 years ago I had a panic attack. I felt outnumbered, outgunned and very much a small worm on a big f***ing hook. It really is a free for all. Kill or be killed. Thats not what life is about, if you can call it life, in Dublin. Funny setence that above..."You've been given a life sentence, in DUBLIN!!!!" Anyway, I'm alot happier in Manchester. I feel better. I dont feel worry, fear or pressure. I can do what I want, when I want. It's fantastic.

so we've deduced that its Dublin thats bad. theres a few other places on the island you know! haha. I've lived in a few places on the east coast since leaving home at 18 7 years ago and I have to say Dublin is the most insular of the 4 places I've lived. It's gas. Dont know what it means, just an observation. I like the old folks in Dublin, they're funny. You know, the ones that seem to be, possibly, grandparents of the white tracksuit wearing lads (always white tracksuits with the scum,anyone notice that?).