People have been saying that since the 1970s. That's not to suggest it isn't true; it's just a rather circular arguement that has more to do with the size of the country than it has to do with making a career out of music.

I don't live in Dublin but I can't offer any direct observations. However there are certain things that I feel can be applied to the Irish music scene or any music scene in general. First to borrow a line from the movie 24 hour party people "music is a double helix, while one scene is the descendant another is in the ascendant", basically what that means (I think) is that no scene can maintain a constant level of creative energy. Eventually it dies down, regardless of how much is done to nurture the local scene and another music scene takes its place. Maybe that rising scene is in the same city, but more than likely it will be somewhere else entirely. (I reckon Canada is about to have its time in the sun of indie credibility.) However if you follow the double helix analogy to its logical conclusion (Oi! wake up, I'm not finished yet! ) the scene that was once in the descendant will rise again. Music like fashion is cyclical. Now to get more specific about what I think is wrong with the Irish music scene. This is just a personal theory I have and I would love to hear anyone who has a contradictory argument. Anyway my theory is that Irish bands/artists have lowered their ambitions creatively. They only seem to be measuring themselves against other Irish bands. This is not to see that these bands are bad, its just that when you compare them to what else is out there globally many of them don't seem to have that edge over other non-Irish bands. As for record companies tightening their belts, yeah probably true, but why wait for some A&R man to come knocking at your door. What happened to punks' DIY ethos?

I know some amazing bands that because they don't tour are nowhere near to getting the recognition they deserve. The internet makes it possible for them to have bigger followings than they would otherwise, but I think it's important for bands to tour. I know a band from Sweden that I think could be HUGE if they could only tour the states, and another from Eugene, OR that would be much bigger in their scene if they'd tour, same goes for a local band from Tacoma. I'm just glad I've got the internet to discover music I normally wouldn't ever hear of.

i don't think it's so much the size of the dublin music community, it's just that too many people are dying in dublin and so the great music doesn't get past the bedrooms and small venues. the morgues and cemetries are full of dead people, a lot of them who have died in the last couple of years, days and weeks. consequently, the market for music is too fickle and people don't get a chance to buy stuff, mostly due to the fact that, for many, death is just around the corner. the replacement of people by other new people, many just born or toddlers can often be too long a process, and many musicians just give up. all i can reasonably suggest is some way of reanimating dead people, to improve and increase the market for dublin music. this, of course, carries the danger of zombie-ism, and consequently is not too popular either in the music industry or in the indie community. well, we'll hope for the best anyway, i suppose.

Hahaha, woo!... Brilliant stuff unit seven. You know there used to be a band in the 60s called The Zombies, but that was such a cop out because the weren't actually undead but in fact were alive and rather healthy. Personally I'm all for undead muscians, look at Keith Richards! However it should not be assumed that reanimating dead people is the major cause of zombieism, there is evidence that this state of mindlessness exists in many living people. A zombie is physically identical to a normal human being, but completely lacks conscious experience, which could quite easily describe Damien Rices' fanbase! hehe (I was gonna say Westlife but thats just too easy a target)

I'm not one for statistics, but 32.305% of zxombies have taste, blowiny your Damien RIce theory out of the water, Binokular.

Ah yes, however taste implies concious thought. I believe some zombies are in fact making good record purchasing decision, purely on an automatic level, influenced by external stimulus such as the NME or Hotpress actually featuring a good band on the cover. To prove my theory, heres 0.305% of a zombie now (he used to be a whole one until he encountered a frag grenade). Lets ask him. Binokular:"So what do you think of this weeks NME" Zombie: "BRAINS, BRAAAINNSSSS, RRAAAGGHH" Binokular: "eeek!" Luckily I distracted him with this website: http://www.brains4zombies.com/

Are you sure that the zombie wasn't referring to The Jimmy Cake record?

havent read the above apologies... i just think what the scene in dublin is missin is one really good venue that always has a crowd in it. for example folk know this place is good and has good bands every night or whatever so go there no matter who is on knowing they'll have a good night. i think thats the set up in new york etc

I think Dublin is too small and there is no big music scene. What ye see are groups of bands trying to do something and its falling on deaf ears. If a band wants to make it out of Dublin they have to really want to and have their s**t together. Dublin is only one city, UK bands tour the Uk where there is more cities and more interest. There is some great bands around but you can only play the same few venues so many times to the same people. Maybe bands need to start getting together and organising gigs of Dublin bands in the UK, make people notice Dublin.

dublin is grand and doing fine but getting out of the city does rock. The Corpo are taking Large Mound over for a short Scottish tour in May, and then we're adding the Tychos to that bill and doing a small UK one at the end of June. Japan in september, woo!

My problem with the Irish music scene is not with the bands, the venue's or even the general public but with the f**king media, pumping a load of s**te into people's brains from every direction. If i turn on the radio all I here is the usual crap that I've heard for the last two or three years like, so I don't listen to the radio anymore. And then you have Hotpress, don't get me started on them, basically utter bollix's who don't give local talent a chance. So basically people only listen to or read what the media want and any real talent in Ireland is f**ked.

The standard of live acts in Dublin at the moment is much better than anything we've had for years. A trip to any open mic night held during the week in the city center turns up a wealth of talent that we should be proud of. On top of that we've got some of the best bands ever to come out of Ireland doing the rounds now. The Duldey Corporation in particular but we aslo got F.K.O.S, Republic of Loose, 10SR, the Frames, the list goes on.... The music scene is far from dead, however the music Industry has never been alive in this country. Just look at most of our exports. The country is too small to have any propoer music industry and anything that is there is dominated by the likes of Louis "f**king" Walsh. But who needs an industry when we got raw talent? that's my 2 cents anyway

It's all a matter of taste but I reckon "In love with the Duley Corporation", the F.K.O.S album and the Republic of Loose EP more than hold their own when compared to any contemorary releases from any country. Creatively speaking I can't think of any Irish bands that even come close to their level, past or present, and I've heard most of them.

on irish releases, my faves at the moment are waiting room's 'catering for headphones' and the coldspoon conspiracy's 'plays well with others' i too think that these records are on a par with international releases

WTF? the Dublin scene isn't dead, just lazy. Most bands do zero gigs outside Dublin, and even then the Dublin gigs are to their mates, and very badly publicised. If a band wants to do better they WILL leave Ireland, and I'm sure somebody will pipe up with "but band X are now on large label Y made it" that's one. We, Pinion, have played with 200 SEPARATE Dublin Bands in the last 3 years, (some great, most awful) and few are pushing as hard right now as ourselves (look out for an independent as in NO label, not an "indie" label, single release April 9th) and an Irish tour to promote/pay for it. Then when we have that under our belt we are off to the UK and then the US to tour some more. Other REALLY hard-working bands at the minute are: Mike got Spiked, Morello, and Ginseng. MGS are releasing in July I believe and the other 2 have recently had singles get to no.20 and no.24 respectively in the Irish chart, no mean feat considering the amount of work it takes to do it yourself. The scene isn't dead, but you do have to lead it by the hand to make it work. Above all, go to the shows, plenty of bands are playing, not enough people are listening. What are your plans for April? how about supporting unsigned talent? (List of gig dates deleted by Monderator as they are already published on the 'Gigs announcement' discussion board)

The problem is that most bands lack direction through no fault of their own. Any band can record an album and put out independently, But not very many people will buy it which can often lead to a band making a loss. The sad fact is that to get heard you need to be signed to a major label (usually british) and the chances of that are fairly remote. There is no "industry" in this country. Rte gives us music shows like the lyrics board and your a star and gets rid of no disco. Radio stations like phantom get taken of the air. Getting gigs is difficult, getting decent money for them is near impossible. We have 2 music magazines, Hotpress which seems to be an outlet for the multi-talantless Niall Stokes to get political, try to be cool and sell out at the same time and foggy notions which is good but doesn't come out often enough.

Some very interesting points on this thread - especially about the media. It is interesting that no-one has mentioned Cluas as a media outlet supportive to Irish music (or maybe this is taken for granted?). Indeed, what is the general state of Irish online media regarding Irish rock? Thumped is just full of Jimmy Cakes talking about their beards and individual band forums are just full of groupies. Does Foggy Notions have an online presence? Whatever happened to Muse? Does anyone know anyone who has paid to use hotpress.com? The thing is the Dublin rock scene (which is where this started) is in a strange state right now, You have a host of acts who are selling loads and loads of records (you know the list) but, with the exception of Damien Rice, none are doing the business away from here. This has ALWAYS been the death-knell for Irish rock - we support our acts to the death here (why else are the like sof JErry Fish. Hothouse Flowers, 4 of Us and the other s**te acts from the 80s still around) but those abroad rarely respond with similar enthusiasm. There are also loads and loads of acts from every country in Europe who are huge at home but unknown abroad. Sometimes, this suits them just fine - why bother with all that touring abroad when you can sell 50-100k copies of your album in your home state and live happily off that? Maybe it's time for the Irish music community to admit defeat, admit they can't sell abroad and make do with the home market. Certainly, the government are doing nothing to help Irish rock acts break abroad - unless they have the seal of approval from Louis Walsh. I'm sure if Louis was to help, say, some no-hoper Irish bands like the Dudley Corporation or Joan or Arse, things might be different