The Truth New Member Posts:4  
| 11/2/2006 7:13 PM |
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Is there a Blizzard ahead for Dave Pennefather ????!!
In an article in this issue of Hotpress there is an interview with Mr Dave Pennefather of Universal fame. Unfortunately Dave thinks his fame is Universal and walks and talks with an air of smugness that that is only held by Royalty, Now while Dave deserves genuine respect for his work in the music business many years ago, I have to draw the line after this piece of literacy genius, and voice my views… (which many share, but are too chicken s**t to admit it).
Ireland is home to some of the greatest musical talent in the world as we all know and no doubt we will unleash plenty more.. The problem is that Dave has this knack of making a mockery of the whole thing. He loves to brag about been so successful in the business and easily forgets how many disasters he’s personally responsible for and potential music careers that have faded away as a direct result of his inability to A&R and package artists, that he convinces to sign to him as he sits on his Universal throne.
Now again I respect the great one for his ability to run the Irish division of Universal Music, which is arguably the most successful record company in the world, but seriously to report that he is responsible for the “phenomenal success of Eminem, Shania Twain, Scissor Sisters, Snow Patrol” etc in Ireland is hilarious. How could you not? These are international artists…Its no big secret that Irish radio generally follows what the UK are playing. All of the Majors receive stock from the UK. They are merely distributors. I mean how could you not be successful running Universal. Their artists constantly dominate the higher end of the charts, and all DP has to do is ensure the product gets on the shelves. What amuses me is that other executives in the Music Business tend to stay more in the background and get on with the job, while DP just waffles on about how great he is and how he going to break the next big Irish act.
Dave is responsible for more disasters in this business than any other person. I wont name bands or acts as its not fair on them, and I am sure most would rather not be reminded of their days with DP. But the list is long
I notice in the article…he comments on The Blizzards when it was put to him that
“They would be one with real international potential!!??” …….This is the great ones response……” You’re better off not thinking along those lines. Your best bet is to think can I make this work in Ireland, and can I break it even here? If, then, I get anything from any of the other territories, that’s a bonus, but really to go in thinking we’ll go and conquer the world with The Blizzards would not be very cleaver because an A&R guy in one of the labels is not necessarily going to have full ownership with any act that’s signed over here. So there might be a feeling of, we’ll I’ll find something myself”
The Blizzards must be delighted to read this and realise how much faith DP has in them. I wonder Dave, do you explain to artists that you are incapable of breaking them outside of Ireland, and that they will be stuck in a dead end situation, because of this, when you sign them.???!!
Perhaps you should think before you pass such comments. But thanks for this particular one as it sums up your ability to
(a) be a really bad A&R man
(b) to knock confidence out of an artist, or show that you do not believe in them
(c) show exactly how much influence you have with your counterparts in Universal Worldwide and how much they value your opinion, when it comes to music.
Now I do not want to give the impression that bands should not take a chance when it comes to signing to a label. These chances are few and far between. All I am saying is look at whom you are signing with and what they are directly responsible for and how much clout do they have. If they are in a major that does not mean you will get interest from that label else where.
So Dave, a word of advice, if you want respect, get on with the job quietly, don’t claim you can do something you clearly can’t, and have respect for others in the music business. There are more then you, as much as that may surprise you.
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vandala Basic Member Posts:267
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mypetkangarooNew Member Posts:2
| 11/2/2006 7:45 PM |
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Just after reading the HotPress piece now. I am a regular reader of Claus but this is the first time that I felt so strongly to actually register and post a comment. I have to admit that I was shocked to read Dave Pennefather’s comments about the Blizzards especially considering he is their label boss. For him to say "If I can get anything from the other territories that's a bonus" in relation to The Blizzards album securing a release outside of Ireland is a very half hearted defeatist attitude. A good label executive would view the fact if an album was not picked up by its parent company in the UK as a total failure and not as a bonus if it was released.
I'm sure the Blizzards will not be too impressed especially considering that they are a very hard working band.
I'm sure Dave Pennefather is good at making sure the shelves are stocked of Universal products in Golden Discs etc but his track record in A&R is quite poor. Think Carol Anthony, Music from the 4th place, Reel and his off shoot label Xcentury which spawned Collie, Colm Lynch etc.
Hopefully Island in the UK will be sufficiently impressed to get behind the Blizzards in due course despite Dave P’s comments.
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Unicron Veteran Member Posts:1696
| 11/2/2006 8:03 PM |
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I've never heard of this guy.
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Rev JulesVeteran Member Posts:1041
| 11/2/2006 8:40 PM |
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Actually, DP has a point. You would think that a global firm like Universal would simply be able to send the acts it owns to every part of the world but that is not the case. Each territory in the universal corp is a separate fiefdom, so Ireland may release a brendan boyer cd and not release it anywhere else and Holland may release an Andre Rieu cd only in the netherlands, because the vast majority of musical acts really only appeal to fans in their home country, the problem is that when you want to release an act on the label outside of your own territory you need the help and say so of the head of that country's label CEO, Which is why every year, A&R guys from around the world head to midem in cannes to sell their acts to their colleagues in other branch offices, literally. For example, it is mainly because of the push that MTV gave Rammstein when Germany hosted the mtv europe music awards that Universal branch offices decided to take up the band in other territories.
Its for this reason that all canny managers dream of signing their act to a US label, such as Denny Cordell who got The Cranberries a US deal from the off.
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The TruthNew Member Posts:4
| 11/2/2006 9:27 PM |
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Rev Jules
You are correct in stating the fact that each label is independent, something that most acts and or managers do not understand, but it’s not just at Midem that the majors shop their material. There are International meetings held by every Major record company on a regular basis to listen to material that their counterparts send them. This is usually driven by UK, Germany and USA.
The point been made is that if you sign an act you don’t knock them, especially in public.
This business is hard enough. The problem here is that Bands are ill advised and have no genuine place to go to for advice. Advice from someone who has achieved deals outside of Ireland, with Irish artists, and or knows how to A&R and package an act.
Dave represents Universal Music in Ireland. If he feels so poorly of his artists chances, then why sign them in the first place. Its because Dave has a budget to sign Irish Acts, but he just hopes that he stumbles onto something and then can wallow in the success. And believe you me, those who know him, know how painful that would be!
The fact of the matter is that when you sign to a record company, they sign you for the world, if Dave has so little faith in his acts then surely he should sign them for Ireland only and not the world. I am not for one second saying that most acts will fail here. Each act is different and deserves, and should get 100% support no matter what the genre.
If an act is good it will be picked up in other territories. Look at Laura Izabor who is managed by Eddison Waters in Vibe. He secured a deal for her with Jive/Zomba, USA. Religion Music secured European deals for Agnelli & Nelson, Fifth Avenue & Lesley Roy who they just signed to Jive/Zomba USA recently. What happens after the signing is uncertain, but at least they get a fair chance. Not to mention Louis Walsh’s success. All his acts were signed by the UK and not Ireland.
The point been, it is possible to get deals abroad. Its very difficult, but with the right A&R skills and a lot of belief, anything’s possible. But to sign acts when you have no idea what you’re doing and as a result you damage their potential is unfair. As is giving false hope. But the worst is to pawn yourself as something you are not on the back of been the boss of a major label. Running a label and doing A&R are too separate things.
There are too many people in this business here in Ireland who bulls**t their way through. You don’t need MTV, Midem etc to get other territories on board….you need to know what your doing!
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nerrawBasic Member Posts:475
| 11/2/2006 9:42 PM |
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I didn't think he was knocking them, just being realistic.
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dermot_trellisNew Member Posts:69
| 11/2/2006 9:51 PM |
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Yeah, I don't get any kind of overly negative vibe from those comments (and like Unicron, I've never heard of that guy either).. I'd be inclined to think The Blizzards themselves would probably agree with what he's saying.
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UnicronVeteran Member Posts:1696
| 11/3/2006 12:34 AM |
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Based on what I've read thusfar would it be fair to say that an Irish band might be better off signing with a smaller UK indie label then with the Irish branch of a major?
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dermot_trellisNew Member Posts:69
| 11/3/2006 3:21 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Unicron
Based on what I've read thusfar would it be fair to say that an Irish band might be better off signing with a smaller UK indie label then with the Irish branch of a major?
I'm not sure... are there any examples where this has worked for an Irish band in the last few years? All I can think of are Ten Speed Racer and Future Kings of Spain signing to Red Flag, neither of which seemed to work out all that well (though it's hard to make an actual conclusion based on that as Ten Speed split up I think less than a year after their album on Red Flag came out, and I'm not sure what the Future Kings' current status is). |
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UnaVeteran Member Posts:1721
| 11/3/2006 11:26 AM |
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Well The Immediate are with Fantastic Plastic and Adrian Crowley got a release on Rough Trade, that seems to have worked for both acts.
Unless a band are of a high global standard, I think it's a bad idea to sign with a major because you're just going to be forgotten about when Shakira's record comes out, or whatever other business the label has to take care of.
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mypetkangarooNew Member Posts:2
| 11/3/2006 2:24 PM |
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Una's point makes sense - "Unless a band are of a high global standard, I think it's a bad idea to sign with a major because you're just going to be forgotten about when Shakira's record comes out, or whatever other business the label has to take care of"
This is a case in point in relation to Humanzi (who have been covered well on this board) Despite the might of Polydor/Fiction in the UK and Universal Ireland their current single entered the Irish charts at Number 48 today.. Mr Pennefather forgot to mention his success with Humanzi in his HotPress piece!!
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LupusMusicNew Member Posts:19
| 11/4/2006 3:48 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by The Truth
Is there a Blizzard ahead for Dave Pennefather ????!!
In an article in this issue of Hotpress there is an interview with Mr Dave Pennefather of Universal fame. Unfortunately Dave thinks his fame is Universal and walks and talks with an air of smugness that that is only held by Royalty, Now while Dave deserves genuine respect for his work in the music business many years ago, I have to draw the line after this piece of literacy genius, and voice my views… (which many share, but are too chicken s**t to admit it).
Ireland is home to some of the greatest musical talent in the world as we all know and no doubt we will unleash plenty more.. The problem is that Dave has this knack of making a mockery of the whole thing. He loves to brag about been so successful in the business and easily forgets how many disasters he’s personally responsible for and potential music careers that have faded away as a direct result of his inability to A&R and package artists, that he convinces to sign to him as he sits on his Universal throne.
Now again I respect the great one for his ability to run the Irish division of Universal Music, which is arguably the most successful record company in the world, but seriously to report that he is responsible for the “phenomenal success of Eminem, Shania Twain, Scissor Sisters, Snow Patrol” etc in Ireland is hilarious. How could you not? These are international artists…Its no big secret that Irish radio generally follows what the UK are playing. All of the Majors receive stock from the UK. They are merely distributors. I mean how could you not be successful running Universal. Their artists constantly dominate the higher end of the charts, and all DP has to do is ensure the product gets on the shelves. What amuses me is that other executives in the Music Business tend to stay more in the background and get on with the job, while DP just waffles on about how great he is and how he going to break the next big Irish act.
Dave is responsible for more disasters in this business than any other person. I wont name bands or acts as its not fair on them, and I am sure most would rather not be reminded of their days with DP. But the list is long
I notice in the article…he comments on The Blizzards when it was put to him that
“They would be one with real international potential!!??” …….This is the great ones response……” You’re better off not thinking along those lines. Your best bet is to think can I make this work in Ireland, and can I break it even here? If, then, I get anything from any of the other territories, that’s a bonus, but really to go in thinking we’ll go and conquer the world with The Blizzards would not be very cleaver because an A&R guy in one of the labels is not necessarily going to have full ownership with any act that’s signed over here. So there might be a feeling of, we’ll I’ll find something myself”
The Blizzards must be delighted to read this and realise how much faith DP has in them. I wonder Dave, do you explain to artists that you are incapable of breaking them outside of Ireland, and that they will be stuck in a dead end situation, because of this, when you sign them.???!!
Perhaps you should think before you pass such comments. But thanks for this particular one as it sums up your ability to
(a) be a really bad A&R man
(b) to knock confidence out of an artist, or show that you do not believe in them
(c) show exactly how much influence you have with your counterparts in Universal Worldwide and how much they value your opinion, when it comes to music.
Now I do not want to give the impression that bands should not take a chance when it comes to signing to a label. These chances are few and far between. All I am saying is look at whom you are signing with and what they are directly responsible for and how much clout do they have. If they are in a major that does not mean you will get interest from that label else where.
So Dave, a word of advice, if you want respect, get on with the job quietly, don’t claim you can do something you clearly can’t, and have respect for others in the music business. There are more then you, as much as that may surprise you.
The Truth Ineed?
Well I'd love to know where else you've posted this? Or indeed why you wouldn't add you name to such a personal attack. Were you signed and dropped by Dave? You've had some experience with Universal and btw those reading this should know that no A&R person or indeed indie or major record label is without failure. A massive % of acts on us majors get dropped before release. Therefore anyone in the industry is up for similar attack, me included. But rather than have this posted un remarked!
Dave is a f**king pleasure to work with and has an amazing team who deserve every praise for their efforts. Out of all the Universal depts worldwide I've put bands through I've never met a more efficent or on the ball team. And make no mistake it's due to the way he runs his company how his staff react, both as talented people and under his direction.
Universal Ireland's brief on an A&R level is not to sign for foreign markets first. They sign with Irish success in mind same as any other territory does. You can't think any other way. Would a US A&R sign with France in mind? probably not. being able to move out of your territory is the hardest thing you can do. The fact that he said that you couldn't think the other way was the very reverse of "smug" .
Dave has supported and signed acts who have done very well and some who have not show me an A&R person who has 100% success???
His comment on the Blizzards ( If quoted correctly) was both wise and correct, and believe me those guys adore him, what he was saying was that this is his territory, he signed them I'm sure believing they will be a successful act world wide.
He and Universal started the ball rolling very well.They entered the charts today in the top 5. He pushed for and facilitated a world renowned producer to do the album. I know how hard, I manage the Producer.And no one will push harder territory by territory to expand that bands career. I've seen his influence abroad it is considerable.
The main point here is, that he fights harder than anyone I know for change in Radio and TV programming to better favour the Irish artist. He attends more unsigned showcases, gigs than any other MD in the country and is a gentleman to boot.
What is chicken s**t my friend is coming on here in cognito and unfairly slating someone that most of the discussion board members don't know. And please don't claim to represent the Industry. I'm the industry too and whole heartedly disagree on all your comments.
On running Universal it's no easier to sell records here than anywhere else if you are in the industry you should know the effort that goes into this feat. Managing that team is not easy. Each record is a process and regardless of international coverage every review, video play, radio play, PA, gig has to be serviced. It's laudible that He can deal so well with the sheer bulk of releases that come through and still find time to break new irish acts and fight so hard for the rights of the rest.
You are of course intitled to your opinion regardless but put your name to it.
In my opinion (which let it be truthfully said is shared by the vast majority here)Ireland is lucky to have dave behind new acts - you never know whether an act is going to be successful or fail but as long as He continues to enter into every project with the degree of commitment he displays on a daily basis and backs that commitment with well managed campaigns you have no right to say any of the above. No one person has total control over every signing and their fate. He is one of the few good people to have on your team. And knows exactly what he's at!
Regards
Richard Mc Donogh
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The TruthNew Member Posts:4
| 11/4/2006 4:51 PM |
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Dear Richard
In response to your reply….
I have only posted this here, and like most in here I wish to remain anonymous. I am not in the business of attacking people personally, nor do I enjoy it, I felt strongly about the article, David comments and position. Perhaps my attack was a bit strong on David and for that I apologise to him now, and to those that take offense to my posting. I was annoyed at his comments, especially as many look up to him as the head of Universal, to break them elsewhere. If he chooses to publicly brag about his successes in Ireland, then he is leaving him self open for comments, and criticism.
I respect your views, and I am aware that David has indeed a good team behind him. For the record I have never questioned his ability to run Universal or his incredible team he has working for him. I am well aware that it is a difficult task to run such a company. I am questioning his ability to A&R and package artists the he signs, who are under the impression that he is able to break them. As we have very few artists that get a chance, and he is trying to attract them to his label, on the back of his so called success, I feel this is an extremely important issue, that needs to be discussed.
Irish Majors are distribution companies when it comes to material that they do not sign directly. They receive everything from artwork to CD’s from the UK, and have the huge bonus of jumping on the back of the UK’s hard work, in getting MTV, VHI etc on board.
Also for the record, I do not for one-minute want to undermine the immense and difficult task that is at hand when it comes to releasing music, especially at a major level. It is a company like any other and takes skill, which David, as well as the other Major Bosses here have plenty of in this field. This is a false hope and A&R issue…..
Ireland has serious problems in this Industry. There are producers out there that take peoples money and do not do a proper job, there are ex A&R men who ask artists to PAY them to shop their material, to UK labels, when been paid retainers by those labels to find artists. It outrageous. I also believe they ask for ridiculous percentage points on top of their fees as well. Irish radio is not exactly known for supporting Irish Talent, and some of the retail shops are not exactly too keen to stock unknown Irish Artists. These types of people thank god are in their minority. Band and artists need to be made aware of the truth and facts, before they spend their money.
I have been made aware that The Blizzards said in public, and I maybe misquoting here, so forgive me if I am, that if they do not succeed here, they will breakup next year, as they do not want to be a band that plays the Irish Circuit forever. Does this statement not mean that they had every intention to go international?
Turning to your statement …“Universal Ireland's brief on an A&R level is not to sign for foreign markets first.”, does this not indicate that International is not their priority!!?? Its just Ireland??!! Are bands made aware of this, by him, when he likes to go on about his successes. Are bands made aware by him that even if you do have chart success here, you still have a slim chance, for the international dept to consider you. No artists, I am aware of wants to just break in Ireland, and I am sure that if they knew the Truth first off they would re consider their position.
By they way chart position is not success, profit is. And unfortunately having a healthy chart position in Ireland does not mean that any other territories will consider you. If your sales are financially significant they might consider, but even that is rare. There have been artists here that have had massive sales of over 100,000 units and never get interest!
So to this end, please Richard correct me and let me know what Irish bands is David personally responsible for signing to Universal Ireland, that have gone on to success elsewhere?
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The TruthNew Member Posts:4
| 11/4/2006 5:14 PM |
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Sorry Richard just on an other point, and I am referring to your quote “
Universal Ireland's brief on an A&R level is not to sign for foreign markets first. They sign with Irish success in mind same as any other territory does. You can't think any other way. Would a US A&R sign with France in mind? probably not. being able to move out of your territory is the hardest thing you can do. The fact that he said that you couldn't think the other way was the very reverse of "smug" .
While you are probably correct in this, I must point out that while this maybe the labels views they do more often the not demand that the band sign for the world. Its usually, a take it or leave it deal. I know of no label that does not sign an act for the world. So most record companies by doing this do care what happens in other territories. The downside is that if a band signs a world wide deal, and they fail in their territory, they are rarely free to shop their material to other labels as they are stuck to the initial deal, and their careers end as it’s a no win situation.
A good A&R man does indeed sign an act with the world in mind, that’s the whole point.
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milkmanBasic Member Posts:119
| 11/4/2006 8:41 PM |
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these threads are usually hilarious.
shame.
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milkmanBasic Member Posts:119
| 11/4/2006 8:43 PM |
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by the by, nice album cover from the blizzards.
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LupusMusicNew Member Posts:19
| 11/4/2006 11:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by The Truth
Sorry Richard just on an other point, and I am referring to your quote “
Universal Ireland's brief on an A&R level is not to sign for foreign markets first. They sign with Irish success in mind same as any other territory does. You can't think any other way. Would a US A&R sign with France in mind? probably not. being able to move out of your territory is the hardest thing you can do. The fact that he said that you couldn't think the other way was the very reverse of "smug" .
While you are probably correct in this, I must point out that while this maybe the labels views they do more often the not demand that the band sign for the world. Its usually, a take it or leave it deal. I know of no label that does not sign an act for the world. So most record companies by doing this do care what happens in other territories. The downside is that if a band signs a world wide deal, and they fail in their territory, they are rarely free to shop their material to other labels as they are stuck to the initial deal, and their careers end as it’s a no win situation.
A good A&R man does indeed sign an act with the world in mind, that’s the whole point.
Listen mate I'll happily sit here and answer every post you make about the pros and cons of localised Major deals v's whatever - when you either delete the personal aspect of your previous posts or have the Bollix to sign your statement and stand by your attack on Dave.
You are now steering this into a very broad argument and that's not why I replied. I did so because you are wrong about a great asset to this country's music Industry and were wrong to single him out for an anonymous attack on a forum you thought no one would defend him.
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milkmanBasic Member Posts:119
| 11/11/2006 9:23 AM |
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hello?
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