Never regarded him has a great lyricist, but there was a time I regarded him as having a great ear for melody. Seems to have abandoned the Brian Wilson meets Pavement vibe found on the first 2 albums for stadium rock bombast. Snow patrol were always a bit twee, like a more guitar heavy Belle and Sebastian (they were originally on the same label), that was part of the charm, so for them to attempt to be stadium rockers is just daft, they just aren't capable of pulling it off, it's not their strength.

I haven't heard the first 2 records and thought Final Straw was muck, I'm unlikely to buy the new one. However I do quite like hte stuff he did as part of Reindeer Section.

All the big MOR bands: Snow Patrol, Coldplay, Embrace, Keane, etc, all of their lyrics are childish, mundane, safe crap. BORING. Just as inoffensive as possible to appeal to the most people as possible Una's made up MOR lyrics of the day: I run across a field to see how you feel as the sun hits the ground I realise that I found Everything in you What was true Now is gone Take me back To where we're from oooooooooooooh Sufjan Stevens, The Libertines, Damien Marley, The National, Jay-Z, Ryan Adams, Yeah Yeah Yeahs = all exceptional

The lyricists you mention here are great particularly Sufjan Stevens Ryan Adams but I wouldnt call what they write "offensive" either! The Snow Patrol backlash is a bit predictable to be honest - whatever way you look at it Gary lightbody writes great pop songs and i think he is honest enough in what he is doing - I dont think he tries to make out that what he is doing is anything more than that and if people are into it then hey - why begrudge? I would rather see Snow Patrol at top of album charts than feckin bob the builder or crazy frog or some other boy band s**t to be honest!!

I just realised that was you again Una - I think we will agree on something eventually on here! I'm a decent skin really if you get to know me!!

Yes i do agree that gary does make very good pop songs but to be honest as an artist he should be push boundaries. why not? They have a steady fanbase. I'm not looking for a Radiohead type album. I must say the last 2 bonus tracks do sound like a progression of sorts but maybe they are unfinished snippets. Over produced comes to mind with this album. Is jacknife lee really the best man for their job?

Overproduced is the word: his voice sounds so polished it shines through my speakers and blinds me with his terrible rhymes and "dears" (he says it a lot). It actually makes it sound as if he can't sing which doesn't really help if you're trying to sound credible amongst indie circles who like a bit of fuzz and roughness to their singing. I think that this record is absolutely atrocious lyrically but he manages to save it a bit with his aforementioned ear for melody. I think he just needs some more things to write about than relationships as he likes to say since its getting old after 4 albums with this topic. Saw them in Dublin Castle and I must say I prefered them when they played the TBMC in 2003. There was a rawness still evident and I think that has been overcome by the Big Time they have achieved. I've lost the interest because of this and it makes me wonder if some bands are meant to stay playing smaller venues in order to retain some sense of hunger. I'm aware that this goes against a lot of band's thinking that 'there is no point unless we make it' but look at the Go-Betweens, Teenage Fanclub and all the other musicians that I can't remember who are still plugging away but aren't transcending to the bigger venues from the village types. And that's my early morning rant, I forget if I had a point since I just woke up so I'm off to study...

there seems to be a little confusion here... are we not talking about lyricists, only? gary lightbody is pretty much muck on that front... some of una's choices are really quite good (sufjan especially), some not so... some great lyricists i can think of are mark eitzel, stephen merritt, martin finke, stuart murdoch, will oldham... all in my opinion, of course

Thats all in good guys but we need pop songs in our lives as well death ballads and laments. you have to give it to gary he does try. Brian Wilson lyrics can be over bearing at times. I think you guys are right though they have lost ther edge in order to have a certain sound. i think he is more than capable of better things and i actually hope he suceeds. i have a niggling feeling this is why mark left the band ( i dont think he was asked to leave ) Their record company has pushed them in this direction. OK lets take this back to lyrics and not a crusade on Snow Patrol and if any of you guys say " Well you started it " I respond " Your Ma "

'When its all over...' is one of my favourite albums. I think Garys' lyrics in much of this album are raw and from the heart - they really struck a chord for me anyways. Also lyrics from the reindeer section are excellent. Having said that you can tell hes heavily influenced by Lou Barlow - take a listen to Sebadoh's Harmacy album and you'll find a similar theme to the lyrics ie 'We are no longer together but I still love you' Agreed 'final Straw' and 'Eyes..' are less creative but hey the kids love it.. :) RE: Ryan Adams - can right some great lyrics but also tends to write aload of nonsense take 'Rosealee' for instance. What the..?

yeah i agree abot ryan adams, eric. he can be all over the shop. i really can't pick out one of his albums that i would call his best

Jay-Z is second only to 50 Cent as the most over-rated hip hop artist ever. He's heralded as one of the greatest MC's of all time but he wouldn't make my top 100.

but i think all great songwriters really strive for popularity and that means appealling to the masses. does that mean they have to "dumb" it down a little?

but i think all great songwriters really strive for popularity and that means appealling to the masses no way, josé... that is miles off the mark

ok. i take that. but is there anyone has kept the art of good songwriting going and still made it in the mainstream

What constitutes as mainstream anymore? What the impressionable youth of our times are flocking to yammer on about or what your average Joe Soap would recognize or have heard of, its really hard to pin down what constitutes as mainstream since them Farting Monkeys are everywhere. Ryan Adams me thinks would not constitute as mainstream seeing as he's so wrapped up in himself and how he plays tricks on changing other peoples percpetions of him. And whats this I hear about the post office not giving me my social welfare after 3.30...

stroller - I don't see how you could compare Jay Z to 50, Jay-Z imo is a fantastic lyricist. Not the best, obviously, but still, fantastic. I can't take part in any kind of Snowpatrol 'backlash', because I always thought they were mediocre. I do like 'Run' though.