Gar Veteran Member Posts:1676  
| 2/27/2006 3:37 PM |
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Some Irish bands are beginning to get some more exposure across international waters. But are these the acts that the international music media should be taking note of? What I'm talking about is Humanzi featuring in NME, Bell X1 being mentioned on the ad's for Oxegen, The Walls, Guggenheim Grotto and The Chalets appearing on KCRW. Do these acts represent the best talent coming out of the Irish scene or has the true indie heroes yet to come to fruitation?
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kierry Basic Member Posts:244
| 2/27/2006 6:04 PM |
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personally, i think irish bands get way to much exposure in ireland for just existing.
i don't want to be recommended another band on the way up - seeing bands who could be great playing a nearly great show with fairly good songs is beginning to get on my wick.
that is all.
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GarVeteran Member Posts:1676
| 2/27/2006 6:10 PM |
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Yeah that's why I started this tread, in the vain of 'Are the newer Irish bands getting unjustified exposure?'
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Pilchard Advanced Member Posts:699
| 2/27/2006 6:20 PM |
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if irish bands are good enough (and lucky - dont ever write off luck, look at Damien Rice), they'll get attention abroad.
the lot mentioned at the top of the mail?
Bell X1 - Flame released in the UK as a single next week. lots and lots of attention for it so far over there. Looking good for them because "Flock" is a far superior album and more "now" than the last one
The Chalets - they're getting loads of tour supports and the like but i can't hear any song on "Check In" which will make the break for them. still, they'll get loads of press and attention which is great for them
Humanzi - i hear a rumour that their album has been put back to 2007 and that they're finding it very difficult to find champions for them in the UK and beyond. i'd be surprised if they make any impact beyond a very small clique of fashionistas here and abroad
The Walls - i dont like the walls but they have always, always had lucky breaks and hopefully the Morning Becomes Eclectic session does some door-knocking for them
Guggenheim Grotto - very MOR album, i think, but as with the walls
i'd love to be able to add names to the list but i really dont see any of the current mob making any sort of splash beyond ireland. Irish bands have never been able to make a big impact abroad in any sort of collective, cohesive impact like, say, bands from Sweden or Canada
All those bands signed recently like The Marshals, Director, Red Organ Serpent Sound, Juno Falls etc just do not have that extra something to seperate them from UK and US acts who can play much, much better and have more supporters at their labels.
i think julie feeney might be on to watch but only because there's no-one else like her around and i like the sound of Cowboy X but they're brand, brand new and have an awful long way to go
i'm sure people will thoroughly disagree with me but sure, there u go.
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GarVeteran Member Posts:1676
| 2/27/2006 6:39 PM |
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I like what I've heard of Cowboy X so far aswell. But the question of 'Why Irish acts cannot dent the international music scene as much as Swedish or Candian acts can?' surely crops up then. There are alot of Irish bands around right now that I would be excited to see play or pick their album up, so why can't that transcend to foreign soil.........hmmmmmm.
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BinokularVeteran Member Posts:1665
| 2/27/2006 7:45 PM |
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Funny Gar mentioned Oxegen, UK music fans are starting to see Oxegen as an extension of the UK summer festival circuit. The line up is very close to T in the Park in the UK apparently. T in the Park is pretty much sold out and with no Glasto this year, expect a lot people to make the trip over. This is a good thing for Irish bands, could well be Bell X1s and other Irish bands year in the UK alright.
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off the postBasic Member Posts:284
| 2/28/2006 8:40 AM |
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Scotland with more less the same population seems to produce bands with conveyer belt like consistentcy. So why can't we?
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melvin cokane New Member Posts:37
| 2/28/2006 9:26 AM |
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i reckon for my money are delorentos are the best chance of progressing to international success, they are the most rounded, have the best songs and seem to be well liked by all who see them.
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klootfanAdvanced Member Posts:851
| 2/28/2006 9:53 AM |
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The one thing that I think most irish bands have in common is the fact that they derive alot of their support from friends and family, which you would expect I suppose, at least initially. However, I wonder if alot of these bands dont struggle to try and free themselves from this reliance on pre-made fans. I get the impression that a lot of the irish bands going around at the moment are heavily supported by their college mates etc. So that when they play a gig in whelans, while there is a crowd, and while im sure they are fans in the sense they like the music, the scope for increasing the fan base is limited. This is compounded then when a few of these bands get together for gigs to try fill a venue. Yes, the venue is full, but have the bands increased their listenership by much or was it just the fact that between the 3 or so bands, their mates filled the venue? What im getting at here is that a band might continue for years playing these gigs, but never actually go anywhere.. because of a semi false impression of a fan base ( now im not saying that the fanbase dont like the band. thats not my point here ). Albums are released with modest success and eventually, the bands just fade away because they see their hard work not paying off.
You also have to ask the question, is the music good enough for international success. And I think in the majority of cases you would have to say no. You can play gigs for years with relatively decent turn outs, but if the music has limited appeal, then it always will, no matter how hard you push it. This might seem harse, but this is coming from someone who has bought a bucket load of irish music and enjoyed the majority of it, but if you were to ask me would i pay 30 euro to see these bands in the olympia, id probably be saying no.
We have to ask ourselves how so many bands in the UK can form and within 2 years have a number one album and a world festival tour to boot, while irish bands struggle to make it to oxegen. It has to be said that bands in the UK have a much wider audience, plus I think they work the college scene a lot better as well.
Personally, I wonder what effect the closure of Phantom FM has had on the irish music scene. Where once there was a ready means for getting exposure for an irish band, none now exists. Bands like Bell-x1, the walls, turn, snow patrol and others all benefited from exposure on phantom. People like damien rice might never have got his international success without the help that exposure on phantom gave him.
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PilchardAdvanced Member Posts:699
| 2/28/2006 11:07 AM |
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klootfan is right with his Phantom FM thing (even if it will just broadcast to Dublin when - if - it returns) but he's really hit the nail on his head with the line about UK bands getting to the top within 2 years while Irish bands struggle even to get onto the Oxegen bill
whatever about getting on oxegen, there's not a chance in hell that an irish act will ever headline Oxegen because the promoter knows foreign acts will be a bigger draw.
irish bands have huge problems getting off the ground and a lot of this is down to the bands themselves. look at the arctic monkeys, according to most of the press i've read, they spent a year just playing and rehearsing and getting their sound right. when i go to see irish bands, i'm amazed at their lack of a cohesive sound and their only-alright playing ability. yes, it takes loads of gigs to get that right and yes, we dont have the same circuit here as in the UK.
but in the case of the monkeys, they gigged their arses off around SHEFFIELD!!! thats a smaller city than dublin and thats where they started and got their sound together. maybe we dont have the venues at a similar level but maybe its also about attitude
a lot of that attitude comes down to laziness, that "sure it will do" mentality. there are loads of irish acts who just will not put in the hard six month slog abroad in the US or wherever to get results. fair play to the frames for spending last year touring and gigging abroad but every act needs to have a similar mentality and not bolt for home and family and girlfriend and Whelans when the going gets touch in Boston or Cleveland. far easier for them to play a few shows at home, take the easy money and go for a pint on a Tuesday night with the lads than spend weeks playing to six people and a moose in bars throughout the US
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nerrawBasic Member Posts:475
| 2/28/2006 11:24 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Pilchard
klootfan is right with his Phantom FM thing (even if it will just broadcast to Dublin when - if - it returns) but he's really hit the nail on his head with the line about UK bands getting to the top within 2 years while Irish bands struggle even to get onto the Oxegen bill
whatever about getting on oxegen, there's not a chance in hell that an irish act will ever headline Oxegen because the promoter knows foreign acts will be a bigger draw.
irish bands have huge problems getting off the ground and a lot of this is down to the bands themselves. look at the arctic monkeys, according to most of the press i've read, they spent a year just playing and rehearsing and getting their sound right. when i go to see irish bands, i'm amazed at their lack of a cohesive sound and their only-alright playing ability. yes, it takes loads of gigs to get that right and yes, we dont have the same circuit here as in the UK.
but in the case of the monkeys, they gigged their arses off around SHEFFIELD!!! thats a smaller city than dublin and thats where they started and got their sound together. maybe we dont have the venues at a similar level but maybe its also about attitude
a lot of that attitude comes down to laziness, that "sure it will do" mentality. there are loads of irish acts who just will not put in the hard six month slog abroad in the US or wherever to get results. fair play to the frames for spending last year touring and gigging abroad but every act needs to have a similar mentality and not bolt for home and family and girlfriend and Whelans when the going gets touch in Boston or Cleveland. far easier for them to play a few shows at home, take the easy money and go for a pint on a Tuesday night with the lads than spend weeks playing to six people and a moose in bars throughout the US
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nerrawBasic Member Posts:475
| 2/28/2006 11:29 AM |
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There seems to be a lack of ambition from some of the bands who are quite content to be 'big' in Dublin, maybe Ireland and that's it. There is no "Right lads, we have gone as far as we can in Ireland, let's move to England/usa and try take a step further."
Quite content to be big fish in a small pond.
On another note, in whelans on saturday and saw a band use "do you know who I am" line in the band room 
And proceeded to around the room and ask who people were with and if they weren't "with the band" he pushed them out. Got the piss tore out of him and promptly shut the heck up |
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BinokularVeteran Member Posts:1665
| 2/28/2006 6:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nerraw
There seems to be a lack of ambition from some of the bands who are quite content to be 'big' in Dublin, maybe Ireland and that's it. There is no "Right lads, we have gone as far as we can in Ireland, let's move to England/usa and try take a step further."
I get the impression that theres absolutely no lack of naked ambition commercially, but a serious lack artistically. A lot of bands seem to be OK with churning out workman like music, nothing inherently wrong with the music, but you don't get the feeling they're leaving their permanent mark on the face of music history, not even a footnote. Take bands like Galaxie 500 or the Vaselines, from a time when most alternative music genuinely was underground and you still needed a day job if this was the kind of music you wanted to play. Neither made a huge mark commerically, but their legacy is indelible, records that new generations continue to discover and love. Maybe that smacks a bit of "back in the day" indie snobbery, but theres nothing wrong with selling lots of records, as long as it doesn't cause a band to lose sight of what they are aiming for musically.
There are international bands like say Lali Puna, Adult., The Notwist, the Wrens or The Concretes that don't sell a hell of a lot of records in any one country but do get attention and respect internationally. A type of legitimacy thats not defined merely by units shifted. A couple of people in each country buy their records. This is because the music is very specific, it has a unique quality that really appeals to certain groups of people and spreads by word of mouth. The music is not universal in its appeal, but the folks who like it, tend to really like it. I don't see a lot of Irish bands who have that kind of specific appeal recently. Lots of generic stuff thats decent enough, that you might like, but not love.
Am I making sense?
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| 2/28/2006 10:30 PM |
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Interesting points y'all.
Are there any bands that can crack it internationally? I dunno. Probably. Bands don't get the chance to 4 or 5 or 6 gigs a week to tighten themselves up. They wouldn't have the money to pay for that many gigs anyway. No matter how commercial your sound or attitude, you'll have to keep a day job for a good while before you start making even a pittance from you music in Ireland. Its a small place, there's actually feck all people who'll go to a gig in Whelans or even the Olympia. Most people in Ireland would rather go to Barcode or Bondai.......my point is, the Irish indie music market is very very very small, and barely sustainable.
I never met any band that's happy to be a big fish in a small pond, as in big in Dublin, unheard of anywhere else. There's lots that'll play a lot of gigs in their home town for sure, and few anywhere else, but y'know, its their home town. I'd let them away with it.
I reckon, you could play any sort of s**te and get somewhere with it. Look at James Blunt. There's nothing special there is there? Once your career gets to a certain level it snowballs. The marketing and promotion has a lot to do with it. Jimmy B was booked to play a midweek whelans gig and got Songs from a Room. He was first put out there as a credible singer/songwriter. Then some radio dj's latched onto him, before ya know it, he's booked the Point.
My point there is: Some savvy management and pr goes a long long long way, regardless of musical ability. That is something which Irish bands don't have access to. When they do get it, it does a lot for them. Look what Alan Cunnivan's done for Humanzi and The Thrills for example.
there's my 2 cents
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| 3/3/2006 2:55 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Pilchard
............ a lot of that attitude comes down to laziness, that "sure it will do" mentality. there are loads of irish acts who just will not put in the hard six month slog abroad in the US or wherever to get results. fair play to the frames for spending last year touring and gigging abroad but every act needs to have a similar mentality and not bolt for home and family and girlfriend and Whelans when the going gets touch in Boston or Cleveland. far easier for them to play a few shows at home, take the easy money and go for a pint on a Tuesday night with the lads than spend weeks playing to six people and a moose in bars throughout the US
I completely agree. I know it must be extremely expensive to tour abroad for Irish bands but it can be done. I just dont see the desire there. |
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melvin cokaneNew Member Posts:37
| 3/3/2006 10:02 AM |
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Its bulls**t, it comes down to hunger and determination after talent.....wasted talent seems to be a running theme in this country in the arts.....
this "oh its so hard" to this and fooking that...bulls**t...try doing something you hate for a living ok?...it sucks yet most get on with it. nobody forced anybody to be in a band.this country has too many moaners in music.
irish bands who do well abroad work hard for it and believe in themselves and most of all want to do their talents justice.
rant over.
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palaceBasic Member Posts:392
| 3/3/2006 11:01 AM |
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look, i didn't have enough time to read all points - most i did read seemed good... the only thing i disagree with is the point by klootfan and pilchard about the uk bands (including artic monkeys) taking off very quickly... that is ALL hype, absolutely nothing to do with them honing their sound in this place or that... once nme or mtv or bbc radio 1 or...or...or... pick you up and decide you're good, the sheep will follow... you may have built up a good reputation on your own first but it's still all hype, no one will persuade me otherwise (by the way, that doesn't mean that some of these acts aren't good)
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PilchardAdvanced Member Posts:699
| 3/3/2006 12:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by palace
look, i didn't have enough time to read all points - most i did read seemed good... the only thing i disagree with is the point by klootfan and pilchard about the uk bands (including artic monkeys) taking off very quickly... that is ALL hype, absolutely nothing to do with them honing their sound in this place or that... once nme or mtv or bbc radio 1 or...or...or... pick you up and decide you're good, the sheep will follow... you may have built up a good reputation on your own first but it's still all hype, no one will persuade me otherwise (by the way, that doesn't mean that some of these acts aren't good)
using "hype" as a reason or excuse for something is really, really lazy.
irish bands use "hype" too palace but it doesnt work for them. |
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CarlsbergBasic Member Posts:215
| 3/7/2006 10:52 AM |
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"Hype" Definitions:
1. Intensive, exaggerated or artificially induced excitement about, or enthusiasm for, something or someone.
2. Exaggerated and usually misleading publicity or advertising; a sales gimmick.
3. A publicity stunt, or the person or thing promoted by such a stunt.
4. A deception.
When its read like that "hype" really does come out of it looking bad doesn't it. You like what you like and "hype" plays a successful part in a bands creation & existence IF the music is there to back it up and whether or not the band is a "fad" band or a "career" band.
That's todays lecture over.
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palaceBasic Member Posts:392
| 3/7/2006 11:23 AM |
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rubbish
bands get big because they are given a push by the media or they're lucky or they're commercial sounding enough to appeal to the mass population... has to be one of those three... the first one is hype as per your definition no.1
irish bands who get hyped sometimes become big in ireland... british bands who get hyped sometimes become big in britain... if they do, we here in ireland believe they have made it because we suck up everything from the UK
this is a s**te conversation - ireland has 5 million people - it has churned out some big, big acts who sell loads of records (probably more than its fair share)... it has also, much more importantly, churned out some wonderful alternative acts who sell f**k all records - i wish they did sell more but they don't... that's cause the world at large is ignorant... in the middle, we have plenty of average guitar bands (realistically, we're talking about dublin here), just like any other city anywhere...
...god bless some acts in ireland for trying to do it on their own terms
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