D'ya ever see those ladies doin that Crunk/Crank dancin styleeee.... Scary s**t man.

I didn't really know crunk was that large apart of the Houston sound. Though it was more thug dirty south stuff

Southern hip hop's been around a lot longer than people think. Rap-A-Lot records (whose roster includes Geto Boys, Scarface and Devin the Dude) have been around for 20 years. Too $Short and 2 Live Crew have been representing the southern states since the 80s. The Outkast/Dungeon Family/Cee-Lo/Goodie Mob collective have been putting out records for over 10 years. And Missy Elliott, Timbaland and the Neptunes have being dominating the scene since the late 90's. In the last couple of years the hip hop scene has been dominated by the New South, Dirty South and Crunk. These new sub genres has being receiving unbelievable press coverage and radio play and well respected artists like Diplo and DJ Shadow are big champions of the sound. The dominant labels include TVT, Cash Money records and Def Jam South and the main artists include Lil Jon & Eastside Boys, Ludacris, Nelly, Chingy, J-Kwon, Petey Pablo, TI, David Banner, Three 6 Mafia, Trick Daddy, Bubba Sparxxx, Ying Yang Twins, Bonecrusher, Tweet, Baby, Mannie Fresh, Ciara, David Banner, Jacki-O, Juvenile, Lil Flip, Lil Scrappy, Shawna, Pastor Troy, Pitbull and Killer Mike. The casual hip hop listener may be daunted by the prospect of trawling through these artists’s extensive catalogue. But there’s no need to worry, I can summarise all that you need to know about the New South/Dirty South/Crunk phenomenon in two sentences...... It's all sh*t. Avoid It Like the plague.

What are you talking about?!!! Crunk is great party music. I balked at a recent (Irish) review of Lil John's Crunk Juice. Firstly because I didn't realise it hadn't been released over here yet, a secondly, because the reviewer despised it because it was so noisey ewwww, horrid. If you don't like loud party music, yeah, you probably won't like it, but that doesn't mean crunk has no merits. Get Low, Lean Back, Yeah are three of the best singles last year. Regarding Crunk n B, Only You and Goodies are fantastic pop songs, although One Two Step is boring crap. Anyway, the whole Hotlanta scene with Jermaine Dupris and Luda has been massive for years - especially with crunkish stuff like Welcome To Atlanta and Move Bitch. Regarding Timbaland, Missy and the Neptunes, their association is mainly geographical because they all have studios in Virginia. The Neptunes are more influenced by rock and electro than they are by southern hip hop. And Missy and Timba first started working together in NYC, so, well, I dunno. You get the Southern vibe off it I suppose, because Timba's beats are so squelchy and sometimes kind of rolling. regarding all this bloody terminology I get 'Dirty South' confused with Durrrty sometimes, as in the St Louis scene, which is totally different to crunk anyway. I think one of the most interesting things about the crunk sound is its incorporation of rock music. It has those massive riffs as beats or underneath them, and then a lot of punky shouting as choruses. It might be a trend, but don't dismiss it. It has far more validity in the States anyway, because of the territorial selling point, so all we'll get over here are the hits, not the scene.

Una what are YOU talking about?

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The Neptunes are more influenced by rock and electro than they are by southern hip hop.

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I think one of the most interesting things about the crunk sound is its incorporation of rock music.

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Don't you think you're contradicting yourself a bit there petal? In addition to it's rock influence Crunk originated from Miami Bass which less we forget is a from of electro music. The Neptunes ARE Southern Hip Hop. Go back and listen to the production on Superthug by Noreaga and you can hear the records influence on the current southern sound. If you need more proof listen to Southern Hospitality by Ludacris or Shake Ya Ass by Mystikal (both of which were produced by the Neptunes). Besides working with southern artists like Ludacris and Mystikal they've also worked with Nelly, Skillz and Slim Thug so how can their association just be geographical? And Timbaland has worked with Tweet, Ludacris, Bubba Sparxxx, Skillz and Petey Pablo. And I love loud part music and I'm all on for the incorporation of rock in hip hop but what these Crunk artists are doing is nothing new. Rick Rubin was melding hip hop with rock samples 20 years ago when he was producing LL Cool J, The Beastie Boys, Public Enemy and Run DMC for Def Jam. Anyone whose knowledge of hip-hop extends beyond the play list of MTV Base would realise would realise that the "artists" spear heading this Crunk scene are talentless. Just because they have massive regional sales that doesn't mean that they're any good. Up until a few years ago the biggest selling hip hop artists of all time were MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice. Finally I can't believe that anyone with an ounce of taste would nominate Get Low, Lean Back or Yeah as three of the best singles of last year. You're talking about a f*cking Usher record here! Tell me love do you like that new Crazy Frog single as well?

all good points Stroller, but I have to admit that I like those three singles I listed. They're great club songs. Sue me! Lived in the States while they were out, so maybe that's something to do with it - nostalgia of dirty, sweaty clubs etc. The neptunes and crunk points you quoted from me are not very contradtictory. I spoke to Chad Neptune once and he told me that he didn't see what they did as southern hip hop. Maybe he was lying, he was very stoned, so delusion is also a possibility. RE Yeah as Ushers song, my favourite part of the track is Luda's rap. I don't think the crunk artists that are getting massive airplay now are talentless. But it is pop music, and people are bound to write it off as disposable, which maybe it is, but that doesn't mean it's irrelevent. What can i say? I'm a sucker for a good pop tune. Yes, Rick Rubin used loads of rock in his hip hop productions, but I don't think his sound is very comparable to crunk.