Interesting subject. Purely off the top of my head.....I would classify "success" in the music industry anywhere, not just on the local scene, as being the ability to make a decent living by gigging / releasing albums / whatever. ( I am talking about original bands as opposed to cover bands / tribute acts etc. There's plenty of money to be made down that route but that's not what this site is about. ) I can think of very few Irish "local" acts that seem to fit this bill. There seems to be a curious anomaly in this country where bands either live in poverty or at best are big fish in a small pond, getting loads of publicity but not actually making a good living....or else they become hugely successful overnight like The Thrills. There seems to be no "in between" level. Then again, as an aspiring songwriter myself, at this point I'd be well chuffed with myself just to have an album released, even if it sank like a stone.

Thanks John

This is a good topic to discuss. My opinion on this would maybe be debated by alot of you, but here goes. Success for a local band on the local scene would come in the form of packing out a venue or having your cd in a local record shop. That would be a mild form of success. It always depends on how we register the scale of success. Will an Ep by a band, who once were tipped as the next big thing, an indication of just how successful they were? Would it be something to show to their kids years later to prove that they were once considered to be successful? I'm not sure. For a rising band around Dublin, for example, it all starts off usually in Eammon Dorans. After a few gigs there, it is either across the Liffey to Voodoo or across Temple Bar to the TBMC. After they conquer that, alot of bands get stuck. They want to keep their loyal fans happy by not charging them too much into another venue while they fear that they wouldn't be able to fill a more distingushed venue. Polar recently played Whelan's to launch a new single. Declan O'Rourke has the Olympia booked. Republic Of Loose played the Ambassador in December. What does it take for a band to qualify to that standard? Easy, its the quality of a band's sound that boosts their profile. An upcoming band can release as many singles as they want and get their friends to pack out smaller venues, but for me this isn't really success. Success would reveal itself in what the band offer and where they are going. With Irish acts choosing to release singles (call me old fashioned but why not release an Ep?) and then disappearing for months on end, that kind of success is very sketchy. Is it even success? I'm not so sure. A rising band are successful when someone see's their poster and knows who they are and what they sound like. They are successful when they have to disguise themselves in order to play a gig to their fanbase. They are successful when international record company's contact them. They are successful when they draw a large crowd at festivals. They are successful when the crowd sing back their songs to them, not just one or two but a large section of the audience. They are successful when they get past Dublin venues and are able to play abroad to where international media recognises them. Any other forms of success are merely tame and limited. Limited in the sense of a lack of music media that covers unsigned acts, in Ireland anyway. A&R people would be snapping more bands up if they had something special to offer. So if a band's quality lacks then so does their success rate. It sounds very simple and it is. Few bands in recent years have become really successful, of course U2 and Thin Lizzy achieved it and some would argue that bands like My Bloody Valentine did aswell. But the fact remains that there is not enough concentration on the unsigned scene from the media, mainstream industry or even music consumers.

Personally I think it's unfair to judge if someone is successfull or not based on whatever critieria you place on them, if someone is happy with their lot then surely they are successfull as they've achieved thier aims; maybe someone won't be happy until they've headlined Slane; good for him, he's a megastar. Someone else might be satisfied with being able to play a gig and then get some girl that he doesn't know to give him a blowjob in the jacks of whatever s**tty little venue they're in and then be able to pay for a Kebab on the way home out of the proceeds of what was taken at the door; good for him he's not hungry and he got his Jimmy waxed. If I were a musician I'd judge myself succesfull if I was able to persue my artistic vision AND be able to make a living out of it. f**kit, if I could make the music I wanted I'd be happy to break even.

I hate the term 'successful'. So many musicians whom we now acknowledge as major or legendary artists - such as Skip James - knew little or no sucess in their lifetimes. All artforms aspire to the universality of music yet precious little music has a universal appeal but all great music is able to transcend local, provincial or national boundaries to be accepted universally. I think you would have to make universal appeal the bedrock of any definition of sucess.

Some really well articulated points here , thanks guys , if no one has a problem I might mail my first draft to you guys later next week...Im getting opinions elsewhere. if you wouldnt mind having a look at it when I bring all the opinions together mail me and let me know trev@gigsmartireland.com all the best and thanks cluas members for not turing the thread into a s**t fest as so often happens elsewhere ;-)

success in the local scene would have to be being too big for the local scene. Think Rev Jules refers more to artistic success rather than business success. This is, IMHO, harder than business success, look at the number of great tunes on the last 3 new cd's you bought, less than half of the album? in many cases this is the truth. however, I do think gar hit the appropriate nails on their heads above. all i'd add is that if you can get people to go to your shows based on your recording or word of mouth from a suitably enthused witness to one of your live performances then something was done right somewhere along the line. Amd remember folks, "ambition bites the nails of success", (feel free to enlighten me as to what exactly he was saying about with that line!heh.)

Having people come see you who are not 'Friends & Family', but are there to see YOU. Thats the worst part of seeing a support act, the 'Friends & Family' in the audience.

success on the local secene is when you don't leave, people no longer consider you part of the local scene. for example: does anyone think the walls are part of the local galwat scene? you need to be able to sell out live venues to have success. personally i think having a positive impact on the irish scene is a success...