Nice, for once they are concentrating on the real pirates. Criminals who support other illegal aactivities by massive commercial operations producing thousands of disks rather than some 12 year old kid downloading files on Kazaa or soulseek.

I can't help but wonder after reading this article, is this the reason we are being charged such exhorbitant prices for CDs and DVDs here in Ireland? The prices of DVDs and CDs are constantly going up in Irish shops. Is this all because somebody is pirating everything they can? Where is the sense in punishing the people that buy legitimate goods by charging through the nose for them. You'd be lucky now a days if you can pick up a new CD for less than 20 Euro and DVDs are even worse (Cinema Paradiso costs 40 Euro in HWV!!!). It is good to see that the powers that be have their attention pointed towards the people that are pirating to support their more indesireable passtimes, but is it right that in the mean time that we get shafted to make up the difference

Businesses do have the right to pass costs on to the consumer. If piracy costs a business money, they are going to need to make that up so that they can make a profit. They are perfectly entitled to make a profit, the real question is, is the margin of profit reasonable. At 20 Euro for a CD or 40 euro for a DVD, I would be inclined to agree that this is a bit too much. On the other hand you must be particularly unlucky if you can't pick up a CD for less than 20 Euro. For example, here is a slection of my recent purchases: Sonic Youth - Sonic Nurse - €13.95 from CD WOW I Am Kloot - I Am Kloot + Carl Craig 2CD set + Death in Vegas - Scorpio Rising - 3 for €15 from a small record store in a suburban shopping centre, working out at €5 euro each, brand new, not used. Delays - Faded Seaside Glamour + Bonus DVD - €14.99 from Virgin Megastore. I don't buy DVDs much but I have seen them for as little as 4 for €30, admittedly these were mainly older mainstream movies and not arthouse stuff like Cinema Paradiso.

The corporation certainly do have a right to recooperate their profits, I'm merely saying that driving your customers to buy pirate DVDs/CDs ain't exactly savy. As for CDs being over 20 Euro, most of the CDs I've bought over the last while have been over 20 Euro. Fair enough some have been hip hop and there could be a case for an extra charge due to importation, but the price of the same CDs in Britain don't even compare to Irish prices. Cd wow is no use to me 'cause I don't have a credit card. There are always special offers on but these don't always contain the CDs/DVDs you want therefore special offers can't really be taken into account when you're considering this argument. I'm not asking these companies to cut their nose off despite their faces (if they had any) I'm just asking not to be shafted for buying legitimate products.

I disagree about UK prices, maybe its the part of the UK you were in, but I was in London, including Camden a few months ago and on average, CD prices were the same or dearer when you converted Sterling back into Euro.

before i ask this question, a few thing. i have no connection with record companies, i am in a band trying to get signed (like all the rest) and i dont like fat cats, nor am i anyway close to being a fat cat. If you take income away from an industry (kids downloading instead of buying CD's), does it not mean that the money for new investment (new unsigned bands, like the ones that place as on this site) is not around? i.e., new music gets pushed aside in favour of re-hashing greatest hits (g'n'r, quenn, etc etc) over and over again? Seriously. I realise that bands are claiming to be able to reach people via the web, fair play, but I think that appears to be a fantasy rather than a reality. Also, I am speakin internationally, not about the tiny market we surely must represent, therefore the overpriced CD's thing, while I agree with the argument, cannot be thrown in as a defence. Come on, explain how the business model will will work, I am interested,

The points raised here are very interesting and I'd like to add one thing which is that I have noticed in my travels around the record shops of Ireland (well, Dublin) that the concept of the standard price has collapsed, even within this country. Two examples, in one grafton street store 'Red Hot Chilli Peppers Greatest Hits' is €13.95, in another on the same street it is €22.00. Another example, €24.95 for 'Tinawaren' in one place, €18.95 in another. Here are another few examples of CD/DVD where no set price exists. 'Bruce Springsteen - Live In New York' 'U2 Go Home - Slane' 'Blackhole Sun' 'Willie Nelson Live '78'

I agree that taking away income leaves less money for new investment, but kids downloading music is not what is taking it away. Now I know some people copy music instead of buying CDs, but those kind of people have existed long before the internet. The chief incorrect assumption that is made is that people download music INSTEAD of buying CDs. This is a false assumption that is not backed up by the facts. There is even evidence to suggest that downloading increases CD sales. I know from personal experience, that if I download or copy music, one of three things happens: I like it and I buy the CD, I don't like it, I delete the file or I think its nice, but would not have bought the CD anyway because its simply not that good. Yes a lot of people just want music for free, but the real music fans are just curious. Often the net is my only chance to listen to a band because of the limited playlists found on modern radio. I agree that overpriced CDs are not a defence for piracy, People forget CDs are a luxury. Unlike essentials such as food or basic clothing, there is no moral imperative to make sure CDs are reasonably priced, however reasonable prices are in the industrys interest. I also believe that copying CDs for personal use to satisfy curiosity or pass good music on to friends should not be classed as wholesale piracy. I believe this should be tolerate if the intent is just to find new music or pass it on to friends rather than just getting stuff for free. These harmless practices are protected by laws such as the US home taping act and similar acts in Europe, but is being eroded by shortsighted greed. Looking at the article, if you examine piracy of physical media, two in five discs SOLD (not given away freely like home downloaders/tapers) are pirated. These are made by organised criminals or small scale opportunists with a CD/DVD burner looking to make a quick buck. It is these people, who are profiteering from illegal copies that need to be concentrated on, but of course its easier RIAA to throw a lawsuit against some 12 year old kid (it really happened) than an organised group possibly operating from a foreign country.

One thing which I think is very interesting for the young band in the future is the possibility of allowing fans to buy 'paid for' downloads of individual songs through a small scale credit card clearance system, such Pay Pal, as presently exists for physical goods sales over the internet. Instead of having to make up EPs, postage and all that hassle, you can just charge your fans to download their favourite tracks, live cuts, remixes off the website.

So if downloads dont effect sales, then downloading is a way to sample acts...ok, i'm not convinced that downloads wont effect sales going forward but the posts since i asked the question throw forward good arguments. I think Neil Young's Greendale was pretty effective in combatting the loss of sales through downloads, if that's what happens,(which I'm not sure of at the moment), by throwing in a story on the sleeve, complete with sketches etc. Thats something for bands and companies to look into, giving more than just music. I'm too young to know, but apparently punk bands did something like this in the early 80s, not just an album, but a lucky bag too! cool! ;) Heres to those of us who will support good acts through our purchasing power!

I agree that downloads help people to sample new acts. One of the most effective old tech examples of this concept is the way that Uncut have bundled a free sampler cd in every issue of their magazine. The result for me has been to discover the magic of the latest CDs by both Paul Westerburg and Willard Grant Conspiracy. Next in the gunsights is Son Kill Moon. By the way Mutch, welcome to Cluas.

I found this article pretty useful. For a young band this could be the ideal solution/alternative to searching for that ever elusive contract offer. As everything is done on computer making the music available on the net is a natural progression. See what you think of this Mutch, might be of some help. http://www.ishmagazine.net/features/index.php?gp=4