Apologies, I was of the opinion that this was a discussion board for anything music related, yet no one has replied. Whats wrong? Is this not a relevant topic for this site? I realise that Cluas is dedicated to new music, but none of the bands being discussed create in a vacuum (a lot of them are shameless immitations of each other!).
Ireland has such a rich tradition in music and it is doubtless that this has influenced modern music making. Any opinions? Even if you think Irish trad and folk is s**t and it doesnt influence any of the comtemporary Irish bands you listen to, it would be interesting to hear what people think...

Its a big question Learphol. It sounds more like an assignment than a question asked out of general interest. Plus this place is a bit of a ghost town recently so I wouldn't hold your breath.

"but those who have been most successful have all conformed to the demands of the recording industry, turning their music into a commodity. Is this the only way to make music? "

Of course not, but its the only way to make money.

It would be a good assignement to try and do. I wanted to find out what role folk based music and ideas had in the Irish 'Indie' scene.

It is a big question yes, but it could easily be applied to any band/artist who challenges society, preconceptions, establishments etc., or generally is inspired by folk aesthetics/traditional music.

Are there any bands/artists of interest that do this? Dempsey is an obvious example, anyone else?

In a long winded, way im tyring to discover bands that id be interested in, bearing in mind previous posts. Thanks for the warning on lack of posts Peejay. It would be interesting to hear from those who post regularly.

I reckon folk music in the real sense of the word already died the minute audio recording was invented. Folk music is passed by oral tradition rather than written tradition right? Everybody in the modern world has had their musical outlook shaped more by recorded music than by their "folks". Simply picking up an accoustic instrument does not make it "folk".

To get an idea of how much recorded music has changed our perception of things, take for example the idea of "definitive" version of a song. This is a totally modern concept that was only possible because we can capture an individual performance of a song, rather than simply the song itself. We take it for granted nowadays, people causing uproar over a "sacrilegious" cover version, but in the folk tradition, there is no definitive version, songs would evolve over generations.

Fair play to ya Learphol for raising an interesting topic.

But whilst its an interesting topic, you ask a lot of questions that need answering.

Firstly, "What role, in such a commercial environment, does the music of our country have to today’s recording artists?" and IMO the answer is none. Bar a few artists who are exceptionally gifted at entertaining a niche market, in the commercial music environment, traditional Irish music plays little or no role.

Thats not to say it doesnt play a role. Quite the contrary. I wouldn't be a lover of trad but most Tuesday nights I can found in the Crane Bar in Galway enjoying the foot-tapping goodness of the trad players. What attracts me to trad is the energy it exudes. Its rare that you see the multitudes (perhaps an exaggeration) swept away in musical genres like they do trad. As a writer of music, I strive to create that same euphoric sweeping feeling, but thats a lot easier said than done. I imagine I'm not alone in this, so therefore, Irish music does play a role in modern Irish music - artists just choose to use it as an influence,not a template.

"Many artists can claim to draw from the rich tradition of Irish music, but those who have been most successful have all conformed to the demands of the recording industry, turning their music into a commodity."

The first part of your sentence there should have answered your first question. I don't really understand what you're talking about when you say 'the successful have conformed'. I imagine your definition of successful is 'popular'. If this is the case, this isn't artists fault but the music buying public. Non-conformist records (that sounds too soviet for my liking but hey) generally don't do well financially. Exciting new bands/musicians do exist, the general public just don't buy them - its why Snow Patrol will ALWAYS outsell the Duke Special.

Most musicians want to make their music a commodity. Although that sounds rather unromantic. Most musicians want to make a living out of music, and therefore have to make their music a commodity.

"Is this the only way to make music? Generations of singers and musicians in Ireland passed down their songs, which were in turn developed and heard by many."

Errr....thats still happening - I don't really know what your point is here. New music is inspired by former artists and new lyrics frequently reference old rhymes (in song or poetry). Nothings changed there.

"Can folk-influenced music be included as part of the tradition, or is it just another genre ‘popular music’ competing for shelf space?"

Thats your own opinion really. I find folk-influenced music (eg. Fionn Regan) much more accessible than trad folk (eg. Woody Guthrie). Maybe making it accessible makes it pop. I dunno.

As I see it, in your following posts, you consider trad and folk to be "any band/artist who challenges society, preconceptions, establishments etc.". Now I dont wanna sound like an old prick here but (here it comes!) when I was a young lad all that I was offered was trad and folk. Thereby listening to stuff like Led Zep, Radiohead, Velvet Underground etc. would have been going against the grain. If I'd have picked up a Bodhran and learnt 'shoe-the-donkey' then I would have been conforming. Holding a guitar and making an unholy mess of 'A whole lotta love' was my generations way of warring against an establishment.

One last thing: "none of the bands being discussed create in a vacuum (a lot of them are shameless immitations of each other!)". This aint nothing new. Bands are, generally, a product of the time they are from. I think 'shameless imitations' is a bit harsh - a lot of todays musicians just wanna make the music they like to hear. But conversely, whens the last time anyone heard a Trad Song and went 'WOAH! Thats revitalised the genre'? Or heard a line slither from a folk singers lips and say 'No-one has said that before'. If you ask me trad and folk are some of the most repitive forms of music available but, then again, I have uneducated ears.

Jaysus, thats a long post right there - didn't mean for it to turn into an essay. Hopefully that will satisfy your insatiable thirst for views (for a short time at least) Learphol. I look forward to hearing what you have to say.

Learpholl, don't take it so personally! I reckon people didn't take up on your original post because (for me, at least) your point(s)/question(s) weren't very clear (is it the abstract for a thesis?) and aren't very controversial or debate-provoking. I mean:

"What role, in such a commercial environment, does the music of our country have to today’s recording artists?" - it either influences them or it doesn't! Yes for The Corrs, Enya, Damo Dempsey...

"Is this (turning your music into a commodity) the only way to make music?"
- no, but it's probably the other way to SELL music!

"Can folk-influenced music be included as part of the tradition, or is it just another genre ‘popular music’ competing for shelf space?" - yes, if it sounds like folk music, and yes, it's a genre called 'folk'!


What I think you were trying to argue in your post (and, as I said, it wasn't easy to find your point or why it excites you enough to start a debate on it) was: are folk/traditional musicians somehow "less authentic" (your words) as folk/traditional acts because they get involved with marketing and record companies?

Personally, as soon as people start using words like "authentic" to talk about music, I just run a mile in the other direction - usually towards people who prefer to use words like "enjoyable", "exciting" and "thrilling" and who couldn't care less about whether an artist is selling out or inauthentic as long as they make music I like.