The repertoire of top class songwriters stretches far from the most popular bands who headline festivals or do TV commericals. A statement such as the one made above obviosuly doesn't take into consideration the vast amount of quality songwriters that don't acheive widespread acclaim. Genres of a less comerical ilk also churn out numerous songwriters who write some great stuff again and again. There isn't a lack of songwriting talent but a flaw in your search to find it.

would you like to point out this talent please? the critic

There's loads but I'll mention a small few: Guy Clark, Ryan Adams, Jack Johnson, Sam Beam, Patti Scialfa, Steve Earle, John Darnielle, Morrisey, Nick Cave, Ray LaMontagne, Josh Simpson, Ben Harper, Tom Waits, Jackson Browne, Robbie Robertson, PJ Harvey, John Prine, Ed Harcourt, Ben Gibbert, Jesse Malin, Beth Orton, Chris Rea, Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan........need I go on?

There's a multitude of talented songwriters out there. Gar, good list. Some bone-fide contemporary greats there. The few bands Deco cites as being an example of bad songwiritng are not really indicative of a rot in the genre of genius. Coldplay are a rip off of Kate Bush/U2? I'm no Coldplay fan but surely the fact that U2 (again, not a fan) and Kate Bush released albums in 04/05 only contradicts your argument if, as i've inferred, you consider Kate Bush/U2 to be great songwriters? Also, considering that The Stone Roses broke up eons ago i don't think they're the best example of the state of songwriting "today." Why are Franz Ferdinand a joke? Your mentioning The Walls and Damien Dempsey as examples of Irish songwriting talent only underlines the subjectivity of any claims about lack of songwriting talent or not in my opinion.

Damo's feckin great at what he does. There's a few dodgy tracks alright (personally I can't stand Colony or Choctaw Nation), but I fookin hate the way some of you took the point of the topic, ignored it, and then just started a big bitchin session about whatever Irish musician is annoying yee're heads right now. Pathetic. "Gar"'s list up there is pretty good. You'll notice this Deco Murphy chap hasnt posted anything since. Seems as if his got the info he wanted. END OF TOPIC ______________________________________________________________________

Fair enough gar a lot of the artists you have listed are well established from along time ago. But from todays mainstream acts including indie and bands with cult following there are very few outstanding acts or songs. I am not a damo or walls fan, some of their stuff is average i'm refering to the construction and originality of their songs. I admire songs from any genre, once the song is good. Is musical taste a matter of opinion or is there truly good and bad music?

Well in that case if all genres are included The Neptunes and Kanye West are writing asolutley shed loads of classics

Both. There is alot of bad music in every genre that gets over-hyped and mentioned in the same breath as better equiped acts. There are tons of acts that crop up due to a particular scene enjoying a stint of popularity, and some of them are pretty dreadful. But it's then down to the opinion of the listener to decide for himself or herself what they like and don't like. Your orginial post said 'there is a serious lack of songwriting talent in the music industry today'. Just because someone like Bob Dylan has been going for decades now and is of an older generation, doesn't expell him from being one of the best songwriters of today. In fact, his last studio album is one of his best. Maybe, what you meant by your post is that there is lack of original and creative songwriters coming through lately. To this, I would also disagree and evidence is with some of the artists I mentioned above. To be a great songwriter, you don't need to have indie cred or be part of the mainstream. So many of the best songwriters around today don't get plaudits they deserve (e.g. John Grant from The Czars) but good, deep-meaning songs aren't what always sell. Lifestyle Sports didn't use a Hard-Fi song for their current batch of ad's because they write good songs - it what sells, catchy pop. Also, there are some great songwriters in Ireland right now.

I cant argue with that. Who would you personally consider to be the cream of the irish scene? I'm not convinced about pugwash but if they can be succesful the best of luck to them.

In terms of Irish songwriters, whether one views them as bad acts or not, there are some who are pretty good, like: Cathy Davey, Juilet Turner, Clive Barnes, Brendan O'Shea, Christy Moore, Elaine K, Gary Moore, Mic Christopher, Roesy, Declan O'Rourke And of the one's coming through: The Prescriptions, Director, The Marshals, The Mighty Stef, Colm Lynch, Ann Scott, Dermot Byrne, Wallmark, Fionn Regan, Jenny Lindfors, Ciara Allen, Joe Chester, Julie Feeney, Michael Knight

i just dont understand why people think mic christopher was so good. i agree he wrote some good songs, but only a few. when i worked in a record store i remember listening to his album and what was i think a single of his. within a collection of about 5 tunes 2 of them sounded identical. Its obviously tragic that he died and Im sure he was a very nice person, but on a purely musical level, he wasnt that good. talk of "The Late great Mic Christopher" as a reference to his music is i feel, inaccurate. while trying to be as respectful as possible, he wasnt Jeff Buckley and suggestions that he was among our finest songwriters is unfair to the others in the group

I never mentioned anything about Mic Christpoher's death or that having an affect on me liking his music. I didn't include him in the brief list above out of respect for his tragic death, I did so because out of all the songs I have heard by him I have been impressed enough to rate him as a very good songwriter. The 'Skylarkin' album is packed with at least six really good tunes and I heard some more pretty decent demoes from him. This is a thread about good songwriters, so I included him.

I understood why you included him i just didnt agree with you. the album does have a couple of good tunes but not that many. some of the tunes, i dont remember the names, sounded very similar. When you listed good Irish songwriters, i interpreted that to mean a list of some of your favourite irish songwriters, ie some the ones you think are among the best of recent times. I would nt agree he was among the best irish songwriters of recent times. he wasnt that good though he wasnt that bad either and I did enjoy some of his songs but i feel his death turned him into something he had not been before, some kind of songwriting genius (and yes i know you never called him a "songwriting genius")

Just a clash of opinions really. I reckon he was a pretty good (not one of our best) songwriter. Maybe I shouldn't have included him beside the others because he is not still writing today. Nevertheless, he was worth mentioning. Revised List: Cathy Davey, Gary Moore, Roesy, Clive Barnes, Declan O'Rourke, Brendan O'Shea, Christy Moore, Damien Dempsey, Elaine K, Glen Hansard, Ronan O Snodaigh

yes i agree, just a difference of opinions. I wasnt necessarily trying to argue with you personally. Its just I have read opinions about him calling him the "Late Great..." It annoyed me as although, as i stated earlier i thought he was good, he certainly wasnt great. I felt that such claims were indicative of the Irish music scene, but i wont go off on that tangent. now what was the thread?

Oh yeah good songwriters, while the radio and the major music channels(generally) are full of crap, unoriginal music, there is a reasonable amount of good songwriting out there. i would agree somewhat with the nostalgic "it used to be so much better" argument, but i think its easy to forget you are comparing 30 years of music against 2 or three years. of course they'll have been more high quality music over a 30 year period than over a 3 year period. that said i find myself listening to a lot of old music at the moment and a lot of the time (tim buckley anyone?). of good song writing at the mo, Chris martin is very talented, though the most recent album is a bit crap and certainly below the Standard of Parachutes. Interpol? great songs. god this would be a much sronger argument if i could think of more bands, i guess there are few ray Davies, Lennon/Mccartney, etc around at the moment

So to sum up this thread - theres just too much music out there to sit around being negative and complaining that there isn't any good music these days simply because you hear lot of drivel on the radio, get off yer ass, and seek out the good stuff! It only takes a little digging to find the gold. It's true there aren't many "Ray Davies" round these days, but there wasn't many in the 60s either was there? In fact theres always been just one!