Rev Jules Veteran Member Posts:1041  
| 6/8/2005 7:25 PM |
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Have just heard 'Til Kingdom Come' the so called country ditty that Coldplay 'wrote for' Johnny Cash. Oh mother of sweet divine Jesus in Heaven ! You have got to be fr*ck*ing kidding me! Those bedwetters really are delusional. Hey Chris, ditch the Fairtrade Coffee for Malt Liquor and your Hollywood Princess for some strippers and maybe, in a thousand years time, you might be up to writing something in the distant vincity of Johnny Cash. Bleuch !  |
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jmc105 Basic Member Posts:188
| 6/8/2005 11:41 PM |
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the bould johnny must've liked it, since he was set to record it before he died...
---According to singer Chris Martin, they recorded a song for the country legend, but he didn’t manage to complete the vocals before his passing.
"We did a song for Johnny Cash," he told the band’s official website. "We recorded it with Rick Rubin and everything and all that was missing was his vocals. He was going to fly out to LA the week after he died. It’s really sad."---
http://www.nme.com/news/106874.htm
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BinokularVeteran Member Posts:1665
| 6/9/2005 12:17 AM |
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Folks, need I remind you that Mr. Cash also chose to record The Eagles "Desperado" for American Four? Just cos the dudes a legend doesn't mean he always had exquisite good taste, anyway as Picasso once said: "Good taste is the enemy of creativity"
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Rev JulesVeteran Member Posts:1041
| 6/9/2005 8:02 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Binokular
Just cos the dudes a legend doesn't mean he always had exquisite good taste, anyway as Picasso once said: "Good taste is the enemy of creativity"
Dude, I agree with that, I always say that people should listen to his awful Christmas records to get a fully rounded picture of the man. 'Til Kingdom Come' was worse than that and probably a good hint that the time had come to go to the big Ryman in the sky. Wouldn't it have been awful if that was the last thing he is remembered for and not 'Hurt' (Trent Reznor, now there is a man who knows how to write from sheer life experience). |
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jmc105Basic Member Posts:188
| 6/9/2005 11:22 AM |
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so... rev jules and binokular don't like the song = good taste. johnny cash liked it = bad taste. that about right?! or could it not just be that different people have different taste in music...
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Rev JulesVeteran Member Posts:1041
| 6/9/2005 12:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jmc105
so... rev jules and binokular don't like the song = good taste. johnny cash liked it = bad taste. that about right?! or could it not just be that different people have different taste in music...
Don't even try and discuss country music with me because, for me, arguing with you on this topic is like hunting dairy cows with a M-16 and Lazer scope. This piece of crap by Chris Martin is not country music and I find it laughable that he even attempts to try to pretend it is, but then Coldplay are desperate to ape U2 in every way they possibly can. |
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jmc105Basic Member Posts:188
| 6/9/2005 12:22 PM |
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did i mention the word 'country'? i can't speak for chris martin, but wanting to collaborate with an artist surely doesn't mean that one has to morph completely into the style of the other. you don't like it. that doesn't mean it's a bad song.
as for dairy cows and m-16's, i'm not sure their cloven hooves could operate the trigger, but i probably wouldn't hang around to find out. cows with guns...
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spurtacusBasic Member Posts:229
| 6/9/2005 12:31 PM |
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jules=snob
*runs*
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Rev JulesVeteran Member Posts:1041
| 6/9/2005 12:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by spurtacus
jules=snob
*runs*
I am proud to be evangelical about country music but I wouldn't say that I am a country music snob. Anyone who listens to artists such as Jim White or The Dirty South is just as involved in where the music is going as someone who sticks to their George Strait and Merle Haggard tunes. But Coldplay wanted to tap into that genre and grab some of the history and mystique for themselves even though they are not, in any way, a country act so, yes, I'll call 'em as I see 'em. In the meantime, I await the Damien Rice contribution to a Kenny Chesney Tribute album. Maybe Damo could call it, "I Wish I Had A Tractor (It Sure Would Come in Handy on the Lentil Farm"  |
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jmc105Basic Member Posts:188
| 6/9/2005 12:57 PM |
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he didn't say 'country music snob', he just said 'snob'. i'm sure he didn't mean it tho...
are you really saying that it is wrong for a band which is 'not in any way a country act' to collaborate with someone who is a 'country act'?
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Rev JulesVeteran Member Posts:1041
| 6/9/2005 1:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jmc105
[br are you really saying that it is wrong for a band which is 'not in any way a country act' to collaborate with someone who is a 'country act'?
I'm sorry but what do you mean by 'collaborate' I understand it as two or more artists actually working together, preferably when they are still alive (the best approach really) eg: Norah Jones & Ray Charles or Willie Nelson & Sting. Writing some crappy, old dirge and then whining when your attempts to get a legendary star to perform it come to naught (ie: star's death) is not collaboration. Have you got a touch of the Yoda's ? "With the English Language a problem has he" |
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jmc105Basic Member Posts:188
| 6/9/2005 1:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Rev Jules
I'm sorry but what do you mean by 'collaborate' I understand it as two or more artists actually working together, preferably when they are still alive (the best approach really) eg: Norah Jones & Ray Charles or Willie Nelson & Sting. Writing some crappy, old dirge and then whining when your attempts to get a legendary star to perform it come to naught (ie: star's death) is not collaboration. Have you got a touch of the Yoda's ? "With the English Language a problem has he"
way to dodge the question. of course, dodging awkward questions is something you're quite good at. you've certainly had enough practice...
anyway, copied this from some random dictionary website:
collaborate:
Main Entry: col·lab·o·rate
...1 : to work jointly with others or together especially in an intellectual endeavor.
now, arguing about what does or doesn't constitute 'working together' is almost certainly a pointless excercise, but, in my opinion, using the word 'collaboration' is a pretty good way to describe an established singer (musician, artist, whatever) going into a studio with a band to record a song.
and if you carefully read this thread, young padawan, you will see that I did not, in fact, suggest that "Writing some crappy, old dirge and then whining when your attempts to get a legendary star to perform it come to naught (ie: star's death)" was an example of collaboration. what i said was: "wanting to collaborate with an artist surely doesn't mean that one has to morph completely into the style of the other". coldplay wanted to collaborate, which is to say, work together with, johnny cash, (and he wanted to collaborate with them), but his death prevented that from happening.
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Rev JulesVeteran Member Posts:1041
| 6/9/2005 2:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jmc105
and if you carefully read this thread, young padawan, you will see that I did not, in fact, suggest that "Writing some crappy, old dirge and then whining when your attempts to get a legendary star to perform it come to naught (ie: star's death)" was an example of collaboration. what i said was: "wanting to collaborate with an artist surely doesn't mean that one has to morph completely into the style of the other". coldplay wanted to collaborate, which is to say, work together with, johnny cash, (and he wanted to collaborate with them), but his death prevented that from happening.
Check your own posts Yoda, the quote I replied to was, "are you really saying that it is wrong for a band which is 'not in any way a country act' to collaborate with someone who is a 'country act'?" (Posted - 09 Jun 2005 : 12:57:18). Changing your story now are you or just not sure of what you are trying to say ? |
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jmc105Basic Member Posts:188
| 6/9/2005 2:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Rev Jules
Check your own posts Yoda, the quote I replied to was, "are you really saying that it is wrong for a band which is 'not in any way a country act' to collaborate with someone who is a 'country act'?" (Posted - 09 Jun 2005 : 12:57:18). Changing your story now are you or just not sure of what you are trying to say ?
do i really have to explain this to you? i guess so.
the question i asked, which you quoted above, was a general question in response to your comment that: "Coldplay wanted to tap into that genre and grab some of the history and mystique for themselves even though they are not, in any way, a country act."
you questioned my grasp of the english language for thinking that "Writing some crappy, old dirge and then whining when your attempts to get a legendary star to perform it come to naught (ie: star's death)" was an example of collaboration. but i did not say that coldplay in fact collaborated with johnny cash, i said they wanted to. understand? |
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Rev JulesVeteran Member Posts:1041
| 6/9/2005 2:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jmc105
quote:
Originally posted by Rev Jules
Check your own posts Yoda, the quote I replied to was, "are you really saying that it is wrong for a band which is 'not in any way a country act' to collaborate with someone who is a 'country act'?" (Posted - 09 Jun 2005 : 12:57:18). Changing your story now are you or just not sure of what you are trying to say ?
do i really have to explain this to you? i guess so.
the question i asked, which you quoted above, was a general question in response to your comment that: "Coldplay wanted to tap into that genre and grab some of the history and mystique for themselves even though they are not, in any way, a country act."
you questioned my grasp of the english language for thinking that "Writing some crappy, old dirge and then whining when your attempts to get a legendary star to perform it come to naught (ie: star's death)" was an example of collaboration. but i did not say that coldplay in fact collaborated with johnny cash, i said they wanted to. understand?
Let me just reiterate my original point, which all your posts are in response to. I think that this song 'Til Kingdom Come' is crap and that it was unworthy of Cash who did not collaborate on it in any way. Furthermore, if it had been his final recording, it would have been an unworthy epitaph, in my opinion. It is fruitless in a practical sense to talk of what might have been. Cash didn't record it, thats where the story ends. |
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jmc105Basic Member Posts:188
| 6/9/2005 3:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Rev Jules
Look, you can change what you say everytime you are challenged on it all you like and put things in neat little quote marks if it makes you happy but my original point, which all your posts are in response to, is that I thought the song was crap, that Chris Martin is delusional if he thinks he is going to write himself into Johnny Cash's artistic legacy and that the song itself was unworthy of Cash who did not, no matter what anyone tries to spin, actually do any work on it or, in fact, record it. Now, do you understand ?
1. show me one instance where i changed what i said in this thread. use quotation marks, question marks, whatever you like - i'd love to see exactly what you're referring to.
2. all of my posts are not in response to your original post. all of my posts are subsequent to your original post, which is not the same thing. of course, it's a handy way to avoid dealing with any particular issue that was raised along the way.
3. your opinion of the song in question is entirely up to you. my initial point was simply that johnny cash must have liked it - perhaps even thought it 'worthy' of himself - since he was set to record it, but died before he had the chance.
to answer your final question, i understood your comments on coldplay perfectly well, both in your first post and your most recent one. i also understand why you then suggested that i change what i say whenever i am challenged on it. so i'll ask you again: show me one instance where i changed what i said in the course of this thread. |
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BinokularVeteran Member Posts:1665
| 6/9/2005 4:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jmc105
so... rev jules and binokular don't like the song = good taste. johnny cash liked it = bad taste. that about right?! or could it not just be that different people have different taste in music...
wow, quite a little discussion going since I last visited. Just to clarify though, I haven't even heard the song and haven't made any judgements good or bad. The point I was more making is great artists don't always do things are perceived as being credible and in line with "good taste", as sticking with that is kinda limiting.
As for the issue of Jules=snob, nah not quite, I'd say its more Jules=Country Rockist (rockist: one who judges music against the ideals of a specific genre)
*runs, jumps into 13 year old GTi, tears off down the road like a cheeky boy racer* 
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sweetieBasic Member Posts:132
| 6/9/2005 4:15 PM |
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I feel like the only child of a loveless marriage.
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Rev JulesVeteran Member Posts:1041
| 6/9/2005 4:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Binokular
As for the issue of Jules=snob, nah not quite, I'd say its more Jules=Country Rockist (rockist: one who judges music against the ideals of a specific genre)
Country Rockist ? I like it ! 
I would demure about saying that I judge music against the ideals of the country genre. Rather I would judge music which attempts to be part of the genre of country music against the ideals of that genre. For example, I am a big fan of Matt Johnson / The The's reworking of Hank Williams songs, 'Hanky Panky'. Or Ray Charles' 'Modern Sounds in County and Western'. Wonderful music. Equally, I think that Nursat Fateh Ali Kahn is brill too, and he has nothing to do with Nashville. |
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jmc105Basic Member Posts:188
| 6/10/2005 12:07 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Rev Jules
Originally posted by Binokular
I would judge music which attempts to be part of the genre of country music against the ideals of that genre.
2 points. first - how do you know what coldplay's motives were in this project? you also wrote that " Coldplay wanted to tap into that genre and grab some of the history and mystique for themselves". i'm not saying you're wrong, because i don't know either - only the band themselves do. but considering that coldplay are one of the most successful bands on the planet, in every sense of the word, and assuming that they don't share your low opinion of their music, surely they don't feel the need to grab onto the coat-tails of anybody else? chris martin dedicated the grammy that coldplay won for 'clocks' to johnny cash - maybe they just admire and respect him as an artist, and wanted to collaborate with him on a song? Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate, as they say, like.
second - even if coldplay aren't fit to lick the dust from johnny cash's cowboy boots, would it have been such a huge disaster if this project had happened as planned? fair enough, you don't like the song. i'm sure others do, possibly even the man who planned to sing it on the album. regardless, coldplay are going to sell millions of copies of x&y. that would have been millions of people hearing johnny cash's voice, some of them surely for the first time, and it's quite likely that some of those would have been turned on to johnny cash by this album - which would have been a positive thing, no?
that being said, i noticed that you, quite literally, changed your story, as it were, in your post at 14:29 today. does this mean that you won't be showing me where i changed what i said when i was challenged? cos i'll be ever so disappointed...
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