Klootfan, You ask specifically about "implications for our consumer rights" of copy-protected CDs. One consumer right that is NOT affected by this new technology is your right to return the product to your point of purchase. I recommend if the product does not meet your needs in the manner you have become (rightly) accustomed in the past (copying a CD onto mini disc), then I'd bring back the CD and tell them it is “defective” (not untrue one can contend) and ask them for a) your money back or b) a non-defective version of the album (which – unfortunately - may not exist). If you bring it back in this manner it will be sent to the record company as a 'return' which is a headache and, in effect, lost revenue for them. If enough people do this with copy-protected CDs, this technology may become more a pain for the labels than it is worth and they might drop their use of it. I recently returned to CDWOW a copy of Air’s new album which I bought which was copy-protected. I encourage anybody in a similar position to do the same. As consumers of music we actually do have a say. The UK 'Campaign for Digital Rights' website has a VERY comprehensive sub-site with info on copy-protected CDs. It's probably THE essential resource for anything you need to know on copy-protected CDs: http://ukcdr.org/issues/cd/ The topic of copy-protection was also discussed previously on this board here: http://www.cluas.com/discussion/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2328 eoghan Editor, Webmaster, Discussion Board Moderator and other fine titles. www.CLUAS.com

There shouldn't be any technical reason why you can't copy it to minidisc as generally anti-piracy measures are usually designed to make the CD unreadable to a PC CD-ROM drive. The only things that I can think of is if you've got one of those fancy new Sony NetMD minidisc which allows you fit more on a disc by encrypting it in sonys new proprietary format. The other cause is possibly that the interface between your CD player and your minidisc is a digital audio connection, which would also prevent copying. A likely solution to connect the analogue phono out of your stereo to the analogue input of your minidisc, then play the CD and hit record on your minidisc.

I bought Mull Historical Society and had the same problem (could not put the tracks on my trusty mp3 player) - its a real pain in the arse. The result? MHS are gathering dust on my shelf as I gave up carrying cd's around with me a long time ago. Will I buy the next album? Doubt it seeing as I have had this one 6 months and haven't had a chance to give it a proper listen yet. By not allowing me, the punter, to listen to the music how I want, when I want (which is reasonable considering I legitimately shelled out for it in the first place) it results in lesser sales down the line...

Eoghans point about copy protected CDs being defective is actually a good one and entirely accurate. Copy protected CDs are basically corrupted CDs. They don't adhere to the Compact Disc standard defined by Phillips. The case is even stronger if the copy protected CD displays the "Compact Disc" logo anywhere on the packaging. You can quite rightly argue that a copy protected CD is in fact NOT a Compact Disc and should not be described or sold as such.

My MiniDisc player is a bog standard Sony one that i bought about 2-3 years ago now. Its the first time ive had this sort of hassle with it. I tried copying it to mini disc on both a Hi-fi with in built mini disc recorder and using an optical cable to my own mini disc player from a totally different hi-fi system. Which on reading Binokulars post would probably indicate the problem. I might try the Analogue solutionand then break the tracks afterwards. I came across a letter on the web somewhere which someone had sent to EMI complaining about the fact that the Copy protection system infringed on their consumer rights as it did not allow them to make a backup of the recording. EMI recommended that he copy it to Tape. In the age of Digital, they are recommending people use an antiquated medium. Its been a few weeks since i ordered the cd from CD WOW, and im sure me right to return the CD has expired by now. But if it happens in the future, thats exactly what i will be doing.

Straight back, that's what I say. I listen to 90% of my music in work on a PC CD player. Right now I have about 150+ albums on my desk none of which are copy protected. This whole pursuit by the record companies was a typically knee jerk reaction to napster and so on. Unfortunately for them, a great many devices other than PC CD players wouldn't play (the majority of which were car stereos, which would have ruined Dido's career). As a result, you don't find that many albums which are afflicated with this technology. The more people send them back, the more the record companies will realise what a pointless pursuit this is. As for the mini disc, If you have an anyway decent equaliser, analog recording is pretty damn good, even if you don't get the track marking.

hi I have the same problem with copyright protected CDs. I have an iPod and really the only time I ever listen to albums is when I am using the iPod. Seriously who has a CD-Walkman these days anyway!! But it seems that more and more CDs are been copyrighted and I guess we gotta just live with it. But for the mean time, the last two albums that have bought (Didos new one and Kings of Leon) have the same type of copyright protection going on. Bascially two sessions, one for CD player and one for PC. But all i had to do rally was download ISO Buster from the web (google it!) and this will show the two sessions. It recognises the CD audio files, a right click later on the convert to WAV option and I had the music on my HDD. Later I converted each file to MP3 and I was sorted :D

I have a CD walkman too! but I never use it because I never use public transport these days. In car CD players are the best invention since... well, the car actually

This is a bizarre thread... I am a proud owner of said Fountains of Wayne CD and I loaded it onto my iRiver absolutely no problem at all. Doesn't Copy Protections supposedly protect the CD from MP3 creating etc too?

You can get software that can bypass the copy control mechanism. But in my case i was trying to copy it too Mini Disc, and the copy control prevented it from copying.

I also have said album and it copied for me to minidisc as normal. I have a sony minidisc hi fi but i used to use my play station2 so maybe that made a diference but i dont see how..

Thats interesting. I used a Sanyo Hi-Fi with built in Mini Disc and I also used a Aiwa HiFi with optic fibre link and both failed. What happened was that instead of creating the 16 tracks on the mini disc, there were over 200 tracks each of which was little snippets of the songs and it appeared that they were out of order

Thats really weird because Sony own Aiwa and a lot of their hi-fis share the same components. Maybe its a conspiracy to get you to spend extra cash on a Sony!

I always suspected it!!